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Thread: A case of Darwinism at play

  1. #1
    Ent FishyFolk's Avatar
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    A case of Darwinism at play

    One of the most important survival skills in my oppinion is the ability to listen to and take advice from the locals. Specially when the locals are the
    local mountain rescue team, that has to go up there and rescue your precious little selfish behind when you totally fail!

    Like today in West norway where conditions are like this at the famous Pulpit rock:

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    The local mounatin rescue team have all day been pressent at the car park at the beinning of the trail up there,
    begging people not to hike up to the Pulpit du to heavy rain and fog. And most of the people totally disregarded their advice.

    The resulting toll:

    1 person stuck on the trail with a heart condition
    1 person has a broken leg
    and dozens of people are going down due to exposure as their clothes are not good enough for the conditions

    The police has now arrived to close the trail, while mountain rescue is walking the tourists down in three shifts, while trying to
    rescue those who cant self rescue.

    Btw

    This is what tehy came for:

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    Victory awaits the one, that has everything in order - luck we call it
    Defeat is an absolute consequense for the one that have neglected to do the necessary preparations - bad luck we call it
    (Roald Amundsen)

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  2. #2
    Natural Born Bushcrafter Woody's Avatar
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    It looks like a beautiful spot!
    Shame these idiots didn't take heed of the advice given to them, maybe on spot fines and rescue expense should be charged to the people that ignored advice and had to get rescued.
    No doubt putting other people's lives on the line...
    That would probably stop this from happening all the time.

    It reminds me of another story , a while back about these 2 old American sailors with a combined age of about 150 that left Norway and got stranded a number of times off the British coast.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-n...-press-7255445

    I also remember coming down from the Snowdon climb, nearing the bottom, in the afternoon with some friends after a gruelling day , with lots of kit on our back , and seeing these haphazard people going up , in shorts and flipflops , with maybe 4 hours left of daylight and no kit whatsoever , poorly dressed for any weather and a big careless smile on their face...
    Muppets

    Darwinism alright.

  3. #3
    Ent FishyFolk's Avatar
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    Charging for rescues would leave nature as a place for numpties with money....
    Anyway, the weather has cleared some and the trail is now open again as the police has left.... meanwhile one mountain rescue member personally carried 3 people down the trail who was unable to
    walk down themselves due to fatigue and exposure.

    Mountain rescue remains on spot advising people not to go up...still being ignored.
    Victory awaits the one, that has everything in order - luck we call it
    Defeat is an absolute consequense for the one that have neglected to do the necessary preparations - bad luck we call it
    (Roald Amundsen)

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  4. #4
    Ent FishyFolk's Avatar
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    My idea would be to give Mountain rescue some limited police authority to simply order people who are not kitted out for the terrain and weather, to leave the hills.
    Victory awaits the one, that has everything in order - luck we call it
    Defeat is an absolute consequense for the one that have neglected to do the necessary preparations - bad luck we call it
    (Roald Amundsen)

    Bumbling Bushcraft on Youtube
    Nordisk Bushcraft - The Nordic bushcraft blog and forum

  5. #5
    Ent FishyFolk's Avatar
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    Victory awaits the one, that has everything in order - luck we call it
    Defeat is an absolute consequense for the one that have neglected to do the necessary preparations - bad luck we call it
    (Roald Amundsen)

    Bumbling Bushcraft on Youtube
    Nordisk Bushcraft - The Nordic bushcraft blog and forum

  6. #6
    Ranger OakAshandThorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyFolk View Post
    My idea would be to give Mountain rescue some limited police authority to simply order people who are not kitted out for the terrain and weather, to leave the hills.
    If only it were that easy.....

    I don't know how things are done in Norway, but here in the states (at least at the federal level), we cannot "force" people out if they don't have the necessary kit. To a degree, we aren't even supposed to tell them, for instance, if they're wearing flip flops, that hiking boots would be more appropriate footwear for the rough, rocky trail ahead of them.
    The most we can do here is to warn them about any dangers, such as dehydration during the steamy summer days, venomous snakes (Copperheads, Timber rattlers, etc.), and so forth.

    A few winters back, a father and his two young sons decided to make a winter hiking trip along the Ozark Trail, heading to Sutton Bluff Recreation Area in Mark Twain National Forest. They weren't prepared for cold temperatures - their clothing was inadequate. What is really sad, is that a person they met could have helped them, but if any assistance was offered, it was turned down. They died from hypothermia. http://www.waynecojournalbanner.com/...a4bcf6878.html
    My blog, New England Bushcraft

    "Give me six hours to chop down a tree, and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."
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  7. #7
    Ent FishyFolk's Avatar
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    Here the police is the only authority that can tell people to get out of an area. I.e mandatory evacuation.

    The mountain rescue services are a volunteer organisation and can of course inform about anything they please, including advice people about apropriatre kit for the conditions. But it
    is up to the public if they want to follow the advice.

    But to me the worst kind are the "experts". People who claim they know everything, which makes them immune to avalanches, and everything else nature thrws at them...those are the people found when spring comes....
    Victory awaits the one, that has everything in order - luck we call it
    Defeat is an absolute consequense for the one that have neglected to do the necessary preparations - bad luck we call it
    (Roald Amundsen)

    Bumbling Bushcraft on Youtube
    Nordisk Bushcraft - The Nordic bushcraft blog and forum

  8. #8
    Ranger OakAshandThorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyFolk View Post
    Here the police is the only authority that can tell people to get out of an area. I.e mandatory evacuation.

    The mountain rescue services are a volunteer organisation and can of course inform about anything they please, including advice people about apropriatre kit for the conditions. But it
    is up to the public if they want to follow the advice.

    But to me the worst kind are the "experts". People who claim they know everything, which makes them immune to avalanches, and everything else nature thrws at them...those are the people found when spring comes....
    Too true - hence the reason I don't listen to or believe in "experts". That false sense of security can create very real problems, in particular if said "expert" is the leader of a group...then their decisions/actions affect the entire group. And they are always in denial of their plight: "oh, we're fine, just a bit cold, but I know there's a lodge only 10 miles that direction"; "I don't need a jacket! This wind will let up towards the summit. Besides, the weatherman said the forecast would mild and sunny".

    Same thing here - it's always up to the individual to make their own decision. I guess that's how things should be, but certainly NOT when that person in question (the "expert" especially) is the leader of a group. No need for other people to roped into a nasty predicament...and that includes family.
    My blog, New England Bushcraft

    "Give me six hours to chop down a tree, and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."
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    "Be prepared, not scared."
    ~ Cody Lundin

  9. #9
    Ent FishyFolk's Avatar
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    Here the act of roaming around in nature is a right we have since the iron age and beyond. Which is a blessing. But discussion is on if acess to certain routes and trails should be restricted
    under certain conditions. But the people making this suggestion are from the tourist industry, and I smell a rat here, as they would love to monopilize the tourist trails, and charge for their use.
    They have allready tried that with ski trails in the winter. But the right to roam supersedes everything so charging for access is illegal in Norway :-)

    Personally, after some consideration I've landed on the conclusion that the way they handled it at the pulpit was the best. I.e have the police close the trail, while rescue services help with the evacution
    if weather conditions get so bad that people get in trouble. And then continue the effort to inform tourists that flip flops is not apropriate foot wear in the hills....
    Victory awaits the one, that has everything in order - luck we call it
    Defeat is an absolute consequense for the one that have neglected to do the necessary preparations - bad luck we call it
    (Roald Amundsen)

    Bumbling Bushcraft on Youtube
    Nordisk Bushcraft - The Nordic bushcraft blog and forum

  10. #10
    This is a perennial favourite for forums like this. And the answer is really tricky. The balance is between making walking to lovely places an elite sport that requires licences and permits and qualifications versus the ill prepared people who get themselves in trouble.

    I am off on a Stag weekend for my best mate in a few weeks, we are going to Princetown on Dartmoor for a walking weekend. There are 12 of us going, and over the years in various combinations, we have done over 100 mountain marathons, have all the qualifications Mountain Training offer, walked every area and high peak in the UK, 3 of us have won National level orienteering competitions, we will have on our backs rucksacks with every appropriate bit of kit that will keep us safe. We will walk whatever the weather does to us, but could we guarantee that we will all come back safe?

    Sometimes people say that rescue teams should be able to get the 'public' to sign a disclaimer and if they are poorly equipped the team doesn't have to go, but if they are properly equipped they will. That is arse about face for me. I have, and I am sure you will have as well, seen people with every conceivable item of kit under the moon, but not the slightest clue what to do with it all! They would get rescued, but it's wrong, it's not having the kit, it's knowing what to do with it. After all, when on a mountain marathon we carry tiny amounts of kit, look essentially very poorly prepared, but actually are some of the best prepared people in the outdoors that weekend!

    After many discussions on this subject over the years, I tend to come down on the side of letting people get on with it and educating if we get the chance. When we think of the amount of people who use the outdoors, rescues are actually extremely rare. It doesn't help that these rescues are often concentrated in small areas in whatever country you look at.

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