well now I feel guilty.... I've rarely contributed but hold this forum in great regard. Primarily, we climb/mountaineer/trek/camp. I've enormous respect for the skills and knowledge on this site and wish we had the time to learn much more but with young kids we find it hard to even find the time to hand down the pitifully shallow knowledge we have. All I can say is this is a great site which is why I often dip in - I wish I had more to contribute but please be aware that I'm not the only one that has gained much from the collective expertise here. Thanks for making it a genuinely nice place to be ...... atb...... steve