Why are bushcraft and survival knives so different?

[HillBill]

I'm currently in the process of designing a couple of "Survival knives". In my research, one thing that strikes me is the difference between what is considered a survival knife and what is considered a bushcraft knife.

Now, why would they be so different? They both need to fulfil the role of providing you with your needs in a "away from civilisation" setting.... to me a Bushcraft knife is optimised for all that it needs to do, in such a setting. They are optimised for working with wood, the material of choice for construction in the wilderness..... they are easy to sharpen...... they are plenty strong enough....... more than capable of butchering animals if needs be....

So why so different to a survival knife? Bushys are designed for living in the wilderness with.... "living in" (bushcraft) is more long term than "passing through" ( survival).....

Is it only the mentality of the practitioners? I can't see it being anything else..unless the thought is a TEOTWAWKI scenario.

Thoughts guys?

[ammo]

Hi Mark.
Here is my opinion mate.
Function over form.
A Survival knife should be over built. 5/6 inches, Full tang, a Bushcraft knife can be a stick tang, but in a Survival knife I feel it's essential. Convex edge, it's 4 times stronger than any other edge. As for steel, if I was by salt water, i might prefer stainless 440c or 12c27 over a decent carbon steel. In a dry environment I'll go carbon.
A Bushcraft knife is either intended for woodwork or food/game prep (scandi or flat). A Survival knife is expected to do it all, as opposed to doing one thing well. What works well for me, might not suit the next man.
If there was a perfect knife, we would all have one.
Would love to know your opinions and is there a Mark Hill Survival Knife, in the pipeline????

[OakAshandThorn]

Well, aside from a TEOTWAWKI situation, I think 'survival knives' are really just a marketing scheme combined with drama. People get all caught up in the spectacle of survivalism and the best blade that they stray from realism. 'Survival' isn't going into the woods with a pack for a day, nor is straying off the path and finding yourself a bit "turned around" a survival situation, though the latter can easily turn into one if wrong choices are made. To me, a survival scenario is one in which your life is in danger or at least potentially in danger - and these circumstances are usually brought about through poor judgement. I find it rather disturbing that some people seemingly think of survival as a game...since when is a life-threatening scenario something "cool"?? Survival sucks - plain and simple. You are trying to get out alive and hopefully see your loved-ones again, and you'll do anything to keep yourself alive. That's the ugly truth.

Another thing that baffles me is that many picture the "ideal survival knife" as something strong enough to withstand significant abuse, such as heavy batoning - in other words, a full-width tang with a minimum 3.5mm spine. I just don't understand why, if you even had such a knife in dire circumstances (which is unlikely), that you would want to use it for heavy chores that stress the blade. Realistically, you would most likely want to spare your knife from demanding tasks unless absolutely necessary, as you don't know how long it will be for rescue. And if you only have this prized knife (again, unlikely), you'd certainly want to treat it with care and not beat the you-know-what out of it. You can talk all you want about the best knife for a particular type of survival scenario, but this is pure speculation, nothing else. There is no guarantee that you will have your pride-and-joy blade with you when things go downhill. If you are fortunate enough to have a knife on your person, its value will be paramount to your life.

To me, a survival knife is any sharp object that you have on your person (or that you can improvise with materials around), such as scissors, a razor blade, a shard of broken glass, a stone flake, etc. I'm certainly not trying to say that you shouldn't carry a knife with you outdoors, but I believe that if you want to travel 'back-country wilderness' far from civilisation, you should know how to improvise.

I say that yes, it is the mentality of the practitioners. It is easier for them, and more entertaining, to figment survival scenarios - the "lone survivor", with nothing but his trusty knife to hack his way through the cruel wilderness back to civilisation.

Just my two-pence worth . Unfortunately, most everything I mentioned above won't appeal to the masses, so it would probably be within your best interests to create something they would find useful...whatever that is ...if you go down that route. Otherwise, I think you could make a basic, though functional design, perhaps similar to Ben Orford's 'Nomad' knife - something that breaks all (or most of) the conventional rules yet is still fully capable.

[ammo]

A Survival knife, is a tool in its own right. I believe it was Marbles who did the original Jet Pilots Survival Knife. Made to cut through an aircraft skin, stainless, large blade (6 inches) leather handle for comfort.
I think many aspects of the modern bushcraft knife, are inspired from a survival knife. Certainly Mors kochanski/Rod Garcia was thinking that way about the Skookum, and I'm sure Ray Mears/ Alan Wood did aswell.

[FishyFolk]

Survival knife= Rambo-wannabe-knife. More often than not it's "Tactical" and useless for most things other than sticking it into people, or chopping.
Bushcraft knife=Whatever knife I have to hand...this will also turn into my survival knife if the sky falls down.

[ammo]

A Helle Harding is a great Bushcraft knife, but a pretty bad Survival knife. The average woodie clone would make a good Survival knife. A lot the things we take for granted with a Bushcraft knife....full tang, thick spine, strong materials, all come from a survival background. When I think of a Survival knife, I think, Marbles, Randalls, Blackjack, Busse, Falkniivven. All these companies make and have a long history of making great Survival knives.

Survival knife= Rambo-wannabe-knife. More often than not it's "Tactical" and useless for most things other than sticking it into people, or chopping.
Bushcraft knife=Whatever knife I have to hand...this will also turn into my survival knife if the sky falls down.

[brindle]

its a marketing thing , ,survival knife , military , special forces , it sells blades ,, bushcraft ,, knife , it appeals to those who practice it!! . if you called them fred and Rupert .. would it sell ? ,

[JonnyP]

A survival knife is any old blade you happen to have on you or near you in a survival situation..
A bushcraft knife is any old blade you fancy while doing your hobby, but mostly in the shape of a Ray Mears Woodlore knife, cos we is sheeple..

[Dreward]

As a newcomer to Bushcraft/Survival I would like to ask, Where in Britain are you likely to be in a Survival situation for more than 48 hrs before noticed missing and in need of Rescue ?

[MongooseDownUnder]

its a marketing thing , ,survival knife , military , special forces , it sells blades ,, bushcraft ,, knife , it appeals to those who practice it!! . if you called them fred and Rupert .. would it sell ? ,

Depends if the names Fred or Rupert become popular!