I see your point. I guess 90% of the time, that is completely correct, but simply knowing how to use primitive skills is part of both bushcraft and survivalism, for times when you haven't got a ferro rod, or other modern equipment, handy. Would you say that is a fair enough statement?Originally Posted by luresalive
I love this thread, i still think the comment of knowledge weighs nothing. But it is always there, lighters, ferro rods etc still have to have knowledge to get the correct tinders, kindling etc.
And if all else fails, the knowledge to make a bow drill and start a fire could come in useful. Along with all other skills of bushcraft.
Love and knowledge to all.
Yes I Totally agree with you, but I always wondered why so many people put so much emphasis on such a small part of bushcraft, it seems to be the one thing everybody wants to achieve. when I got my first ember with the firebow I never felt any exultation or pride, it was the end of a long hard struggle for me, I just didn't derive any pleasure from it..now Flint and steel in a completely different kettle of fish, every time I see those sparks dance my eyes glow and when the amadou catches it just mesmerises me, I love it...The thing is going out and getting an ember is not easy, keep the boards and spindle dry in your house and you'll get it every time, but in the field it's not the same. I've seen people say they have done it but they used stuff they brought with them, or they used paracord, that defeats the whole purpose and you're simply fooling yourself if you think you've achieved it..go out, cut the wood, dry it if you have to, make the string from natural materials you have gathered on the day then put it altogether and see if you can do it, I'll guarantee you 99% of us won't be able to, if you need to carry string to make a bow drill you might as well carry a ferro rod..There's a video of Survivorman somewhere on you tube which shows him struggling for 12 solid hours to get an ember, he used his shoe laces then strips of cloth, he eventually did it, but if he had had to make his own string from natural materials he gathered on the day I don't think he'd have succeeded...Primitive knowledge and skills are great fun but they're not the be all and end all of the wonderous world of Bushcraft.
Last edited by luresalive; 22-09-2011 at 08:19 PM.
At one of the Dartmoor meets, Andy Bruce, made a group bowdrill, with gathered materials, true he used paracord for the string, but it still worked. He did have the components sat near the group fire, drying totally, for a day or so, but it worked eventually. I see what you're saying though, he had a fire to start with, to dry the timbers, and he used man made cord.
It's interesting you mention no sense of exultation from it. If you don't feel like you have actually achieved something special, then the exercise has nothing to reward you with and, as such, I would say this goes against much of what bushcraft is about. Bushcraft should be about enjoying the things you do, while you live alongside nature, in the most environmentally/nature friendly ways.
Ultimately, what I'm trying to say (just not very well) is, I totally agree with you, that (for you and many others) the fire bow isn't a bushcraft skill. However, for the people that do enjoy it, I think it is. Purely for the fact it is an activity that makes them feel good, that they can share with like minded people, while holding onto primitive skills that our ancestors may have used and not letting the skill fade into the past.
I hope that makes sense to someone out there, my brain hurts...
The fire is basic, Prometheus got it for us and it is the key to all so how to make it has to be special. After all you can strip us right back to the naked animal and mostly we would live even if we gnawed carrion and burrowed in leaves to sleep. It is fire that makes the difference, drives back the dark, warms us so we can think of more than bare survival and adds real pleasure to the mechanics of eating.
I don't think fire itself was ever an issue here. Merely how it is created.
Again I concur and it takes me back to my first post where I mentioned even amongst my friends we couldn't agree, I just love the discussion of such things, the insight into the way peoples perception of certain bushcraft ideals comes across fuels my thoughts and I love the discussions they create, sometimes so much can be gained from such learned minds..At one of the Dartmoor meets, Andy Bruce, made a group bowdrill, with gathered materials, true he used paracord for the string, but it still worked. He did have the components sat near the group fire, drying totally, for a day or so, but it worked eventually. I see what you're saying though, he had a fire to start with, to dry the timbers, and he used man made cord.
It's interesting you mention no sense of exultation from it. If you don't feel like you have actually achieved something special, then the exercise has nothing to reward you with and, as such, I would say this goes against much of what bushcraft is about. Bushcraft should be about enjoying the things you do, while you live alongside nature, in the most environmentally/nature friendly ways.
Ultimately, what I'm trying to say (just not very well
I hope that makes sense to someone out there, my brain hurts...
I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire ( even though he didn't really say it!!)
To move the discussion away from fire then. How much effort do we put into "primitive" skills like navigation by natural means tracking and weather forecasting?
In my wood, small though it is, I tended to get a bit disorientated but although I don't know every tree I do know where I am in relation to the campsite at any time. This is the sort of intimacy with their whole range that hunter-gatherers possess.
Wayfinding is part of bushcrafting but it is a primitive skill all the same.
To catch up on our ancestors the book "Nature is your guide" by Harold Gatty is a good start and so is "The Natural Navigator "by Tristan Gooley both reasonably priced on Amazon. However nothing actually beats looking where you are going when you are out and about.
Good question, but is what you experience a primitive skill or a Natural Instinct or a simple sense of direction?
Homing pigeons don't use bushcraft skills to navigate their way home!!
A skill, an instinct or a sense can all be part of the same thing. Pigeons use magnetic forces, way more sophisticated than seeing what side the moss grows on trees.
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