Are you a lightweight lugger or a heavyweight mule?

[GalaxyRider]

True which is why I would prefer some people to stay at home and not get lost on hills and mountains

If you only let experienced people out on the hills, then way fewer will experience the outdoors. Not everyone is a numpty, and as there is no genetic test for 'Idiocy' (apart from looking at the parents) how do you ever enforce such a thing?

There are also plenty of so-called experts who find themselves lost and bewildered by circumstances (including the 'Bushcraft' instructor a few months ago). Stopping some people simply on the basis they do not have enough stuff is problematic also because I regularly go out with a light doss-bag, small flimsy tent/bivi bag, a handful of porridge, some pasta a Sigg bottle and a tiny stove. Now that would fall foul of the kit check, but I have been doing Mountain Marathons for 25 years.

I see your point, but it is entirely unrealistic. And surely we do not want people to pass 'tests' to be able to go for a walk do we?

[Silverback]

Everyone has to learn somewhere, some how. You cant legislate for accidents, but you can plan for problems, education is the key.

[OakAshandThorn]

Interesting take on my original one line of text. Good job i wasn't asking for reinforcements as we were going to advance

To keep it in context and as a reminder what i actually wrote was in reply to

I would still prefer it if people didn't get lost, but they do... and as a result my colleagues and I still turn out, in all weathers, at all times, and without judgement. I prefer to leave that to the red tops and on internet fora.

In my time I have been involved in jobs from sea level to 4000ft, from professional mountaineers to the complete novice, and have even suffered the indignation of being rescued myself. Despite this I still maintain the same ethos as I did when I joined 13 years ago. I nor my peers are not there to judge, we exist to get the injured/lost party off the fell and into definitive care as soon as is humanly possible.

Everyone has to learn somewhere, some how. You cant legislate for accidents, but you can plan for problems, education is the key.

I wasn't lost in the experience I was describing; I just took too many burdens, and the terrain was quite rough in places.

[OakAshandThorn]

Yep. I'm a volunteer (well, "unofficial volunteer") at a 900 acre park across the street from my house, and I can't tell 'ya how many fools get lost because they were too stupid to take a map and compass or to go with someone who knew the ins-and-outs of the woodlands. Drives me nuts, especially when they hike deep into the forests AT NIGHT. I'm glad I'm not the one answering the phone calls at the park office, because I'd give them an earful.

[Tigger004]

Defo a Mule in winter, usmc sleep system sees my pack half full, then lots of extras "Just in case" It's mine and my son's lives I'm playing with why risk them?

Camped high in the mountains in March and was real glad of the comfort and safety stuff, my bl###dy legs ached but it could have been serious if we weren't prepared,
You never know, if you are not prepared then you also risk other brave peoples lives, as some of you well know.

Not too bad in warmer times, happy to rough it when the risks are minimal

[OakAshandThorn]

Well, no,...but people should at least have common sense when they go to an unknown place. I think that some outdoor skills should be taught in all schools, both private and public. Parents aren't doing much of anything anymore - shows you how crazy the next generation will be :/. All the parents seem to do is park their kids in front of an electronic screen.

[GalaxyRider]

Well, no,...but people should at least have common sense when they go to an unknown place.

Well, it's all about 'Unknown Unknowns' isn't it?

If you don't know the weather will change in a blink, or a bear may jump out, you won't prepare for it. And it's no good saying they should have researched and trained for it, because they did not know it may happen! (If you follow me) The other side of the coin is some deepest darkest Aboriginal native who knows intimately all the ways of the outdoors. Put him in Sydney and he'll get run over by a bus because he has no stating reference point, my guess is no-one would say "He should have found out about buses before he came here" because he couldn't reference them to anything.

[OakAshandThorn]

Well, it's all about 'Unknown Unknowns' isn't it?

If you don't know the weather will change in a blink, or a bear may jump out, you won't prepare for it. And it's no good saying they should have researched and trained for it, because they did not know it may happen! (If you follow me) The other side of the coin is some deepest darkest Aboriginal native who knows intimately all the ways of the outdoors. Put him in Sydney and he'll get run over by a bus because he has no stating reference point, my guess is no-one would say "He should have found out about buses before he came here" because he couldn't reference them to anything.

I see your point now. But I still think that people should have basic wilderness knowledge, which needs to be taught in schools. You are absolutely right about the unknowns.

[AL...]

They have started a program here called Forest school A friend of mine runs it and the kids love it.
No mater the weather they are out and havin a ball.
She came to me to learn a few wee things to teach the kids I think there should be more of this in school.
The down side is that its kinda sad that we have to teach kids how to climb a tree though.

Cheers
AL

[OakAshandThorn]

They have started a program here called Forest school A friend of mine runs it and the kids love it.
No mater the weather they are out and havin a ball.
She came to me to learn a few wee things to teach the kids I think there should be more of this in school.
The down side is that its kinda sad that we have to teach kids how to climb a tree though.

Cheers
AL

Sounds like an excellent program . Over here, we have "Nature's Classroom" - too bad it only lasts 3 days . I know the Arbor Day Foundation is working on wilderness education programs, though. I hope to see some in the future.
WHAT???!!!
Ye Gods...that is sad.