Some Mushrooms That Need ID'ing

[_Matt_]

Okay i have various mushrooms here that need ID'ing. First is what i believe to be a Shaggy Ink Cap, and then a Shaggy Parasol (correct me if I'm wrong in all cases!). Growing in a ditch at the side of a path (through woodland). The Ink Cap was growing elsewhere.

[_Matt_]

Laccaria amethystina? Growing in great abundance under several oak trees. The webcam doesn't really show the colour very well, but it's a dark purply colour. There is also a pic of a smaller specimen there. The bigger one is larger than average (of what's there at the moment) and the smaller ones don't have wavy caps like that.

[_Matt_]

Some kind of milkcap? Growing under Oak.

[_Matt_]

A bolete i assume. Again growing under oak. Very well camouflaged! They kind of look like a dead leaf from above (which also describes its colour better).

[_Matt_]

Spore prints to follow (hopefully).

[AdrianRose]

First one is a Shaggy Ink cap, edible but caution as there are reports of some folk having an allergic reaction to it with associated stomach cramps and sickness.

Second is an Amethyst Deceiver. Edible and tasty. Have a look on my Youtube channel as I have just done a video of it.

Third does look like a member of the Lactarius family. Spore sprint info would confirm.

Fourth is a Boletus for sure. Can't see I too clearly as I'm having to use t'internet on my phone but does look a little like the Red Cracking Boletus.

All the best
Ade.

[_Matt_]

Good stuff regarding the youtube vid. It's convinient that you also happened to have done one on the yellow russula's as i recently saw them growing under pines (pretty much the only thing growing actually) and found out about them. They really do live up to their name as well, as all apart from about one of them that I've ever seen have been broken and many of them are just remnants on the floor. Also good to know the Amethyst Deceivers are edible as the floor is carpeted with them under a few oak trees. So many that it's impossible to not tread on them by mistake.

[AdrianRose]

It's the same here buddy. We could have collected several thousand here without even trying.

Ade.

[_Matt_]

Ok the only spore print that actually worked was the bolete one, which was a greeny colour.

Edit: Upon browsing the various kinds of bolete types, the closest I've found seems to be Boletus illudens. It's the only one that seems to have the right kind of stem (tapered). This picture is very similar to the one i have: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Boletus_illudens_261343.jpg Probably only superficially similar though.

[AdrianRose]

Ok the only spore print that actually worked was the bolete one, which was a greeny colour.

Edit: Upon browsing the various kinds of bolete types, the closest I've found seems to beBoletus illudens. It's the only one that seems to have the right kind of stem (tapered). This picture is very similar to the one i have: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Boletus_illudens_261343.jpg Probably only superficially similar though.

Hi Matt

It is possible but it would be a bit of a rarity as Boletus illudens is only really predominantly found in North America.

This is the fun part of fungi collecting, I've spent many hours pulling my hair out (that explains why in bald!!) trying to nail down a definitive identification of various shrooms. Lol

Ade

[Geoff Dann]

A bolete i assume. Again growing under oak. Very well camouflaged!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyrellus_porphyrosporus



Porphyrellus porphyrosporus, commonly known as the dusky bolete, is a rare fungus belonging to the Boletaceae family. With its purple-brown cap and stem, Porphyrellus porphyrosporus is not easy to spot, despite its large size


I've only ever seen it once, and that was a couple of weeks ago. I walked straight past it. One of my foraging students spotted it.

And not easy to ID from that photo. Had I not found it recently then I would probably have had trouble working out what it was from that picture.

[_Matt_]

I have some more mushrooms that need ID'ing. In fact i will use this topic from now for all ID's as there will be more to come so it keeps things simple. I apologise in advance for the poor lighting in the pics.
First one is just to confirm that it is a Birch Bolete. Seen many of them before and eaten before (not this year) but you can't be too careful. It seems that the boletes are appearing now in fact (well a lot of other things too). Growing with birch.

[_Matt_]

I don't expect for anyone to really have much look with ID'ing this one as the pics don't show much. Small brown capped mushrooms up to a few centimetres across (in their current stage of growth at least), growing with birch. Quite firm. There were quite a lot of these. I didn't intend on bringing this one back but i had already picked it to look at the gills so i thought i would make the most of it.

[_Matt_]

This one is much bigger than the last, a few inches across. By the time i got it home it wasn't in a great state anymore. The cap is toffee coloured, in fact it looked like toffee (helped by the cap being wet and shiny) to me which attracted me to it. Orangy gills. Again growing near Birch. Didn't photograph well again so i don't expect these pics to me of much use.

[_Matt_]

This last one i am assuming is a Common Purple Russula. It is by far the best looking specimin i have found and is probably the only one i have found fully intact. Especially considering how far it has grown! It doesn't look particulaly purple in the pic but it is. How would it be differentiated from the Primrose Brittlegill though?

[Geoff Dann]

I have some more mushrooms that need ID'ing. In fact i will use this topic from now for all ID's as there will be more to come so it keeps things simple. I apologise in advance for the poor lighting in the pics.
First one is just to confirm that it is a Birch Bolete. Seen many of them before and eaten before (not this year) but you can't be too careful. It seems that the boletes are appearing now in fact (well a lot of other things too). Growing with birch.

Yes, that one is easy.

[Geoff Dann]

I don't expect for anyone to really have much look with ID'ing this one as the pics don't show much. Small brown capped mushrooms up to a few centimetres across (in their current stage of growth at least), growing with birch. Quite firm. There were quite a lot of these. I didn't intend on bringing this one back but i had already picked it to look at the gills so i thought i would make the most of it.

Impossible to ID. The colours are all messed up, and there's no base to the stem, and no context. It could be all sorts of things.

In-situ photos are important.

[Geoff Dann]

This one is much bigger than the last, a few inches across. By the time i got it home it wasn't in a great state anymore. The cap is toffee coloured, in fact it looked like toffee (helped by the cap being wet and shiny) to me which attracted me to it. Orangy gills. Again growing near Birch. Didn't photograph well again so i don't expect these pics to me of much use.

Brown roll rim, but again that should be dead simple to ID, but I'm going on the shape and description because the colours are all messed up. A lot of people who know this fungus would have trouble making a correct ID from that picture.

[Geoff Dann]

This last one i am assuming is a Common Purple Russula. It is by far the best looking specimin i have found and is probably the only one i have found fully intact. Especially considering how far it has grown! It doesn't look particulaly purple in the pic but it is. How would it be differentiated from the Primrose Brittlegill though?

Ditto. Decent colour photography is ESSENTIAL if you are going to stand any hope whatsoever of identifying a russula from a photo. In fact I'm not even sure that is a russula.

[_Matt_]

The colour is better on this. Took the stem off to make a spore print, which is white. Gills extremely brittle. While i said purple before the colour is far more pink, but with a purple/black ring.

[Martin]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again. Anyone who relies on the word of a stranger on the internet, for identification of a mushroom that they intend to eat, must be stark staring mad!!! Hell, even I have been tempted to offer my opinion of what an example could be and I know absolutely nothing about fungi whatsoever (and I got it badly wrong!).

There are plenty of people who are well intentioned and there are even a few who know what they are talking about. The question is, how do you know who is who, or perhaps 'You've got to ask yourself one question... 'Do I feel lucky...well, do ya?'. I know my answer to that.

Martin

[_Matt_]

I won't eat something unless i am sure beyond any doubt myself what I'm eating. I have not asked for these to be ID'd because i plan on eating them this time. It's just to add to a general understanding of what might be edible and what isn't (and fungai in general. I am interested to know what they are regardless of wether i think they will be edible or not), and to find out if i was right or not. If i am right then that's a good step forward but it doesn't mean I'll will eat what I've found. If it wasn't for the fact that i don't own a camera (aside from a webcam) i would just take photo's in-situ as I would rather not uproot mushrooms unnecessarily.

[Martin]

I won't eat something unless i am sure beyond any doubt myself what I'm eating. I have not asked for these to be ID'd because i plan on eating them this time. It's just to add to a general understanding of what might be edible and what isn't (and fungai in general. I am interested to know what they are regardless of wether i think they will be edible or not), and to find out if i was right or not. If i am right then that's a good step forward but it doesn't mean I'll will eat what I've found. If it wasn't for the fact that i don't own a camera (aside from a webcam) i would just take photo's in-situ as I would rather not uproot mushrooms unnecessarily.

I'm glad to hear it. I trust that others will assume your common sense approach to this but I'm afraid that common sense just isn't very common. :(

So, to anyone who feels inclined to go collecting edible fungi on the strength of what they have read on here, I would strongly suggest that you think long and hard about who is offering the advice and how much you should trust someone off the internet.

Martin

[Silverback]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again. Anyone who relies on the word of a stranger on the internet, for identification of a mushroom that they intend to eat, must be stark staring mad!!!


Likewise.....I like to ask to either confirm my identification or just to bring in a fresh pair of eyes and a different perspective and maybe 30 odd years combined experience. I'll never eat wild fungi UNLESS I have a 100% PID

[Geoff Dann]

The colour is better on this. Took the stem off to make a spore print, which is white. Gills extremely brittle. While i said purple before the colour is far more pink, but with a purple/black ring.

Hi Matt,

That's still a no-hoper for an attempt at a russula ID. The colours are better, but there's still something not quite right, and the exact colour of a russula is very important. You also need to see the stem colour (is it white, or off-white?). Also you need to note:

where was it growing and what else was there?
what do the gills taste like (hot? acrid? mild?)
how much does that cap peel from the edge without breaking?

Then you might stand a chance.

Russulas are HARD.

Geoff

[Geoff Dann]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again. Anyone who relies on the word of a stranger on the internet, for identification of a mushroom that they intend to eat, must be stark staring mad!!! Hell, even I have been tempted to offer my opinion of what an example could be and I know absolutely nothing about fungi whatsoever (and I got it badly wrong!).

There are plenty of people who are well intentioned and there are even a few who know what they are talking about. The question is, how do you know who is who, or perhaps 'You've got to ask yourself one question... 'Do I feel lucky...well, do ya?'. I know my answer to that.

Martin

Hi Martin,

Relying on identifications from the internet is very dodgy, for sure. Part of the problem is that pictures can be misleading, as in this case. That first photo of the russula looked more like a tawny grisette to me, or one of the orange/brown milkcaps. The other is that you usually don't have any idea who you are talking to.

My job is teaching people about fungi and foraging. It's my job to get this right. Or at least not get it wrong...

http://www.wibberley.org/fungiforaging/fungiindex.htm

Geoff

[Silverback]

Russulas are HARD.

I feel better for getting my ID wrong then ;) I couldnt accept it was a Yellow Russula because it was growing in the wrong place so my brain made me tell me it was something else, a bit like lost people who make the features fit the map when they are hopelessly lost...

[_Matt_]

I thought i had mentioned that it was growing with birch, but it seems i forgot. Stem is the same colour as the gills, very white, and plain. It has no volva.

how much does that cap peel from the edge without breaking?
About half a centimeter or so. And all the time the gills are crumbling away in my hand.

[_Matt_]

For further clarification, the entire mushroom looks superficially exactly like the second from the bottom and in the middle pic here (apart from mine being pinker): http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/MediaPath/C5D127A45DDE4159B22979CEC303343C.jpg

[Martin]

Hi Martin,

Relying on identifications from the internet is very dodgy, for sure. Part of the problem is that pictures can be misleading, as in this case. That first photo of the russula looked more like a tawny grisette to me, or one of the orange/brown milkcaps. The other is that you usually don't have any idea who you are talking to.

My job is teaching people about fungi and foraging. It's my job to get this right. Or at least not get it wrong...

http://www.wibberley.org/fungiforaging/fungiindex.htm

Geoff

Hi Geoff, I can assure you that I'm not belittling your expertise or your ability. On the other hand, we only have your word for both and you could be some nutter who gets a kick out of giving dangerous advice to unsuspecting individuals.

Of course, I'm entirely playing devils advocate here but you can understand my point, I hope. I just hope that no one gets this badly wrong.

I really hope that no one takes offence here as none is intended whatsoever. Just please, please, please stay safe where this stuff is concerned.

Martin

[Geoff Dann]

Hi Geoff, I can assure you that I'm not belittling your expertise or your ability. On the other hand, we only have your word for both and you could be some nutter who gets a kick out of giving dangerous advice to unsuspecting individuals.


Erm...in the last three weeks I've been quoted in two daily newspapers, appeared on Channel 4 and given a well-recieved talk at the Bluebird in Chelsea, as well having spent about 60 hours teaching members of the public about wild fungi. And I am posting under my real name.

Are you trying to suggest that the people who employed me to do these things did not check my credentials beforehand?

Or are you suggesting I'm actually somebody else, and just pretending to be Geoff Dann?

Just because the internet is full of self-proclaimed experts on every subject under the sun, many of which don't actually know what they are talking about (and please believe me, I know all about this, having been in charge of Richard Dawkins' forum at a time I was studying for a degree in philosophy), it does not follow that every person you ever encounter on the internet might fall into that category. Especially if they are posting under their real and full name.



Of course, I'm entirely playing devils advocate here but you can understand my point, I hope. I just hope that no one gets this badly wrong.


Anybody who eats any fungi they are not 100% certain of the ID of is playing a very dangerous game. But I do need to re-emphasise that it is my job to not get this badly wrong. If I were to get an ID badly wrong (i.e. I mistake something known to be poisonous, or unknown edibility and turns out to be poisonous, with something I thought was known to be edible) with my customers, then I'd be finished. And if I get it badly wrong on this or any other website, my reputation will take a big hit. I am used to this. For most of the past 25 years ago, if I had got it badly wrong then I might have ended up dead.

If you think about it, it is not in my interest to encourage people to rely on the internet for the ID of wild fungi, even if I thought it was safe. On the contrary, I want people to realise that this game is not easy, takes a long time to get good at and it really helps if you spend some time with an expert who can show you some of the ropes. That's why I have lots of potential customers!



I really hope that no one takes offence here as none is intended whatsoever. Just please, please, please stay safe where this stuff is concerned.


I also want people to stay safe, and I haven't taken offence. I just want to make it clear to you that I really am the person I'm claiming to be, and not somebody else, and the person I'm claiming to be is actually a bona fide "expert" on wild fungi, or at least those that are edible, poisonous, or look like they might be edible (I have a long way to go with the large number of species that are of little or no interest to foragers, because I haven't spent the last 25 years trying to identify those.)

I have a much better website in the pipeline. Here's my existing one:

http://www.wibberley.org/fungiforaging/index.htm

If you want to see me in action, albeit briefly, you can probably still get the 3rd episode of "Food Unwrapped" on 4od.

Geoff

[Geoff Dann]

If anyone from the midlands is interested, I have been booked to replace a missing fungi instructor for a day in Northamptonshire. Spaces still available:

http://www.btcworkshops.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/201/s/fungi-foraging-27-october-2012/category/13/

I hope it is OK to post this here. I've come here to share my knowledge for free, in the spirit of this website. :-)

[_Matt_]

If you want to see me in action, albeit briefly, you can probably still get the 3rd episode of "Food Unwrapped" on 4od.

Geoff
Just had a butchers at that, it is still on there. Interesting watch!

[_Matt_]

Ok so i got some in situ pics of the suspected lactarius, and also some of the suspected common purple russula:

56845685568656875688

[_Matt_]

Cont.

[_Matt_]

Also some more pics of the bolete type mushroom:

[_Matt_]

I was thinking maybe Lactarius subdulcis for the suspected Lactarius. There are pics of 2 different ones there. The first 3 pics are of a smaller one, and the 4th one along with the pics of the gills are of a bigger one. The description fits well. The liquid does not change colour (or anything else), white gills, etc.. There are quite a lot of these growing under an oak tree now, generally not bigger than about 4-5 cm. They were there before but now lots more beginning to grow.
A russula i obtained (a different specimen from the ones here but looks the same) had a white spore print. Doesn't change colour on breaking. The cap is a few cm across (and they are all about this size) The gills tasted quite hot although I'm not sure how hot 'hot' is in russula terms. I would say similar to pepper maybe. Russula fragilis?

[Geoff Dann]

Ok so i got some in situ pics of the suspected lactarius, and also some of the suspected common purple russula:


I can see five pictures of a lactarius. Looks to me like L. volemus, which I've only ever found once, and was disappointed with (supposed to be a good edible.) So I don't know if I got the ID wrong or what. But that's what it looks like, anyway.

[Geoff Dann]

Ok so i got some in situ pics of the suspected lactarius, and also some of the suspected common purple russula:


I can see five pictures of a lactarius. Looks to me like L. volemus, which I've only ever found once, and was disappointed with (supposed to be a good edible.) So I don't know if I got the ID wrong or what. But that's what it looks like, anyway.

The purple russula is...a purple russula. I'm afraid it is beyond me to identify russulas from pictures, apart from in certain specific cases, and this isn't one of them.

The bolete looks like a Jersey Cow bolete.

[KaiTheIronHound]

Geoff, i'm impressed by the credentials mate, but i have to say i agree with Martin on this one. I'm perfectly willing to trust your word that you are who you say you are, and that you have the expertiese needed to get the job done right. This however isnt the issue. The issue is that this is, like it or not, the internet. Just like i dont automatically trust the information on an archaeological dig that i find on the internet, even if it is correct. I'm no fungi expert, but as far as i know there are one hell of a lot of variables involved in identifying them, and as i said, its not that i dont trust your knowledge, but EVERYONE should always seek the opinion of an expert in person, with the sample.

It may sound needlessly complex, but last year in canberra some university students foraged some mushrooms then asked for advice on the forum that the uni has set up for students specifically studying fungi. The pictures were good, but they still misidentified and sent 2 students to the hospital. When they examined the actual specimines, they found them to be a toxic variety. The pictures they had examined previously were taken with a very expensive digital SLR, and yet there were still issues.

I guess what i'm saying is that everyone, including the experts, should be VERY careful about identifying edible plants and fungi from pictures on the internet. Its probably not worth it to make a small mistake, which we are all capable of making :)

[Geoff Dann]

Hi Kai


Geoff, i'm impressed by the credentials mate, but i have to say i agree with Martin on this one. I'm perfectly willing to trust your word that you are who you say you are, and that you have the expertiese needed to get the job done right. This however isnt the issue. The issue is that this is, like it or not, the internet. Just like i dont automatically trust the information on an archaeological dig that i find on the internet, even if it is correct. I'm no fungi expert, but as far as i know there are one hell of a lot of variables involved in identifying them, and as i said, its not that i dont trust your knowledge, but EVERYONE should always seek the opinion of an expert in person, with the sample.


That is sound general advice. A great many fungi can only be reliably identified in the flesh. An obvious example of this came up a couple of days ago with some possible wood blewits. This species looks a lot like several cortinarius species of unknown/suspect edibility and the only way I can ever be really certain with this species is to smell them. On the other hand, there are quite a few fungi that can be reliably/safely identified from a photo.



It may sound needlessly complex, but last year in canberra some university students foraged some mushrooms then asked for advice on the forum that the uni has set up for students specifically studying fungi. The pictures were good, but they still misidentified and sent 2 students to the hospital.


Sorry, but either the pictures weren't good enough, or the species (like a wood blewit) is too tricky to depend on such an ID, or the person doing the identification wasn't good enough. You don't just have to know the mushrooms you are identifying - you also need to know everything poisonous/unknown that they could conceivably be mixed up with.



When they examined the actual specimines, they found them to be a toxic variety. The pictures they had examined previously were taken with a very expensive digital SLR, and yet there were still issues.

I guess what i'm saying is that everyone, including the experts, should be VERY careful about identifying edible plants and fungi from pictures on the internet. Its probably not worth it to make a small mistake, which we are all capable of making :)

Yes, VERY careful.

My advice is most certainly to get some experience by going out with an expert. The existence of the internet makes things easier than they were for me when I was starting, 25 years ago, but they are no substitute for "real life" experience.

Geoff

[KaiTheIronHound]

Well, the ID was done by a PHD student studying local varieties of edible mushroom. Unfortunately the inedible one looked, with a lot of the identifying features destroyed by rain, to be an edible species that i'm also familiar with. I guess thats something else you have to watch out for, as some ID features can be dissolved in a heavy downpour.

[Geoff Dann]

Well, the ID was done by a PHD student studying local varieties of edible mushroom. Unfortunately the inedible one looked, with a lot of the identifying features destroyed by rain, to be an edible species that i'm also familiar with. I guess thats something else you have to watch out for, as some ID features can be dissolved in a heavy downpour.

I'd be interested to know which pair of species were involved. Usually the problem of identification-critical features being washed off by the rain involves Amanitas, many of which have veil remnants left on the cap (e.g. fly agaric, false death-cap). But quite frankly if a PhD student studying edible fungi managed to mis-identify one of the two most poisonous, notorious and well-known fungi on the planet, I do hope that person failed their PhD, because they did not deserve to pass.

I stand by what I've said. It all depends on the fungi involved, which is why you need to know what you are doing. Nobody should ever eat false death caps, even though they are edible, because it's too dangerous. Nobody should ever trust the ID of a wood blewit from a picture, even by an expert; you need to smell it. But if the fungus in question is a shaggy inkcap or a parasol mushroom, then you don't even need the expert. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can go out and identify those for themselves. The critical piece of information is this: "shaggy inkcaps and parasol mushrooms are easy; there is nothing dangerous (in the UK) you can confuse them with." That's all you need the expert for.

[Tony1948]

Well I picked some the other day,I hope there alright becouse I'v already eaten them5700

[_Matt_]

I personally think it's the responsibility of the person asking, not the person making the suggestions. It's probably a good idea to remember that if you have to ask, then it might not be worth taking the risk (of relying on an online ID. Or otherwise potentially wrong ID).

[twosmokeforever]

Hi Matt

It is possible but it would be a bit of a rarity as Boletus illudens is only really predominantly found in North America.

This is the fun part of fungi collecting, I've spent many hours pulling my hair out (that explains why in bald!!) trying to nail down a definitive identification of various shrooms. Lol

Ade

so mushrooms are why my hair is leaving me?

[_Matt_]

I have a new one. Some kind of puffball but which one? The ones that it does resemble seem to have a different base where this is just round. Ground on the edge of a cow field near trees. About the size of my fist. Has quite a strong smell, very much like shaggy parasols (to me at least). It seems to have discoloured slightly yellow on cutting. It looks most to me like a giant puffball but is the wrong colour and they don't discolour i think?
57635764576557665767

Note: The pics are not from the habitat where it was growing.

[Geoff Dann]

Probably a mosaic puffball.

[_Matt_]

Probably a mosaic puffball.

Definately seems to fit the description well, the only reason i might think otherwise is because they generally seem to be more pear-shaped where this one is just round but I'm guessing the shape can be quite variable.