Hey...lets be careful out there!!!

[rossbird]

Makes you think, doesn't it:shocked:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17259087

[paulthefish2009]

I know they can cause havoc but what a lovely creature! bit of a shame it had to be shot.I have seen the damage they can do,my lad works on a farm and recently a fox got in and killed half a dozen chickens semingly just for fun,still that was some fox!

[Martin]

A fox attacked and damaged tents up on Dartmoor a couple of weeks ago. It was trying to scavenge food from the tents whilst the owners were inside!!

Martin

[jus_young]

What a lovely beast. Its not suprising that they are getting bigger really when you consider what we leave for them to scavenge.

[jus_young]

Just another thought, is evolution playing its part as wolves have been absent in the UK for some time? The removal of one large predator may allow lesser species to take their place requiring an increase in size to take larger prey.

[rossbird]

Just another thought, is evolution playing its part as wolves have been absent in the UK for some time? The removal of one large predator may allow lesser species to take their place requiring an increase in size to take larger prey.

I can see your reasoning but Wolves are pack animals, whilst Foxes are lone hunters. I'm not sure that there is a larger prey for the Fox to predate on.
Having said that, it does appear that Foxes are becoming larger to some extent.

[rossbird]

The thought of a 38lb Fox tearing at my tent is not something I'd relish.
The Pasty would have to be sacrificed I'm afraid.

[Kernowek Scouser]

It would have to be a bloody big fox to snaffle a pasty of me ;)

Having said that, foxes attacking tents is a bit of a worry though. Imagine you are on your lonesome, camped out on the moors, trying your best not to dream about the opening scenes of An American Werewolf in London (is that just me?) and you get jolted into wakefulness by a ruddy great fox, tearing through your tent, right by your head.

Potentially a brown trouser moment?

[Proventurer]

The thought of a 38lb Fox tearing at my tent is not something I'd relish.
The Pasty would have to be sacrificed I'm afraid.

Ok, so here's my two penneth worth!
On my last trip to the UK, I was amazed at the abundance of foxes, roaming the streets of my old home town of Gosport, which has little claim to being rural, they owned the night and were driving the local dog population crazy!
So now I ask, what price, the cessation of the local Sunday hunt, not only have their numbers increased to the point where they freely roam the streets at will, they are evolving in to what amounts to a super predator.
Why is it that the bunny huggers and mother grundies have so much clout, as to sway things towards what appears to be a pending ecological disaster?

[happybonzo]

I think that we have to be a bit cautious about this story.
The fox that has just been shot was in a rural environment as was the very large fox that was shot in Kent (?) last year.
The foxes that I used to see when I lived in Hillingdon near Heathrow, were poor thin creatures. In the time that I lived there I only saw two that I would describe as being in good condition and I used to see them every night as they would to run up and down the grass verge in front of the house.
Fox Hunting was still allowed at the time but I never saw the Quorn or Belvoir queueing up to hunt Hayes, Hillingdon or Uxbridge. They would have found much more worthy vermin pursue if they had :)

[Dan XF]

I'm thinking about foxes tearing in to a tent and I'm glad I've bought a hammock. I was on exercise in Canada with an infantry regiment when I was woken by two soldiers armed with pick axe handles telling me there was a bear in the cookhouse tent. We went to have a look at it, huge. it had opnened up a new door in the side of the tent and was eating large tins of food. It was just biting them open and eating the insides out. One of the soldiers asked me what I wanted to do about it. I think they thought I should go up and have a chat with it and perhaps shoo it off. I decided the best thing to do was go back to bed and leave it to get on with it. And we didn't get eaten by the bears. Anyway I'm one of those bunny huggers who is against hunting with hounds, it's not because I like foxes I just don't think tearing them apart with dogs is particularly nice. If I was a farmer watching his stock being attacked by nice Mr Fox then I'd be happy to shoot him. It's humane and doesn't involve a load of braying Hoorays on horseback ruining a peaceful day in the country. Bloody donkey wallopers!

[bronskimac]

Foxes were moving into the towns long before hunting with horse and hound was banned.

"When I were a lad" my Dad was manager of a commercial chicken farm. Every time there was a hunt he would close the main gate to the farm and if the hunt came up the road he would not let them onto the farm. It wasn't long until the fox(s) realised that the farm was a safe haven, you would see them running up the lane and into the farm where they then strutted about content that they were safe. My Dad was not keen on the hunts but it was also a commercial decision, the noise of several horses and numerous hounds could easily put hens off the lay.

I am on the side of shooting them if they are a pest. "The Hunt" is barbaric, cruel and inefficient.

[Bushwhacker]

Ermm, what's there to worry about?

[jbrown14]

That fox is nearly the size of some of the coyotes we get around here!

If a fox was tearing into tents trying to get at food, my main comment is: shame on the campers for improperly storing their food. That's how people out in the western states get "et by bears" as Tony would say (or at least mauled by bears.) I've seen enough human-bear encounters caused by the people improperly caring for food items to last me a lifetime, and it goes to reason if foxes can get an easy source of food from campers not doing their job properly, they'll exploit it.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox... :D

Enjoy the day, everyone!

Josh

[Roadkillphil]

I'm getting flashbacks of the "1000 wolves eating a whole Russian town" thread here. Foxes can be a pain in the ass, both in towns and rural areas, but is the term "attacking" not a bit melodramatic for ripping a tent to get at some leftovers? I mean, no one was eaton :p were they? ;)

[happybonzo]

I believe that some of the camping grounds in the USA have "bear boxes" where campers are required to place all foodstuffs over night. If you are camping where bears are about then I was taught to throw a line over a high branch and put all grub in a sack and haul it well out of reach.
I've never encountered bears or wolves for that matter but I have had my tent bumped by a wolverine and that was a brown trouser moment

[jbrown14]

I believe that some of the camping grounds in the USA have "bear boxes" where campers are required to place all foodstuffs over night. If you are camping where bears are about then I was taught to throw a line over a high branch and put all grub in a sack and haul it well out of reach.
I've never encountered bears or wolves for that matter but I have had my tent bumped by a wolverine and that was a brown trouser moment

You're right about the bear boxes there, Bonzo. Where I hike, in the Adirondack Mountains of Upstate New York, the apex predator is the Black Bear. The public campgrounds in New York State where I live require overnight visitors to put ALL scented items, i.e., food, cosmetics, toiletries...whatever; into the steel bear boxes. They warn you at the gate when you're driving in that your car does not count as a bear box. I left some cookies at the ranger station because I didn't want to carry them in my kayak, and wouldn't leave them in the car. Two days later, the rangers hadn't even eaten one despite my invitation...:D

In certain areas, overnight campers in the backcountry are required to carry portable Bear Canisters (http://www.bearvault.com/).

I could go on about a couple of bear encounters, but don't want to totally hijack the thread... :)
Any way you look at it, we're entering the animal's domain. It's up to us to minimize our impact. LNT includes taking care of your food properly.

[jus_young]

I love the different directions that some of these threads take :D

Not sure that sleeping in a hammock would be much of an advantage, you will just end up with your arse bitten! But seriously its not a great concern yet is it. There are always some odd ones thrown up in nature and a couple of oversized foxes are nothing to worry about. Now when they get to release those wolves in Scotland then that will get a few folks worried.

[jus_young]

Heres another spin on it. Apparently foxes like garlic bread :)

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/Fox_mugs_man_for_garlic_bread

[Raven]

Well ladies if you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Seriously i'm amazed at this thread, the reason i go out in the wild is to experience nature all around me, and if sensible you will never have a problem, super preditor my arse, you are in far more danger in your own house, town or city in this country than you are in the wild, i worked for some time with dangerous dogs and let me tell you i'd rather meet a rural fox on the scavinge any time than an angry pit bull with no fear of humans. Really are we worried, i don't think so.

[happybonzo]

Just as much danger in Urban areas - LINKY (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10251349)

[andy202wr]

Interesting post this. I was out in the Yorkshire dales a few weeks ago.I saw a poster about the release of wild wolf's in the area above Kettlewell.

[rossbird]

Interesting post this. I was out in the Yorkshire dales a few weeks ago.I saw a poster about the release of wild wolf's in the area above Kettlewell.

Hell...that puts the Fox way down the list:)

[happybonzo]

I know that it's nice to see Beavers again but they have been a disaster apparently

[Neils90]

On one of the lakes I fish, an angler was nipped by a fox whilst asleep under a brolly. Although from what I can gather his foodstuffs were not very well stored, ie messy bugger with used pots and pans around the area, as a consequence he is now a lot neater in his bivvy area, although I gather he does not sleep quite as easily as he used to on an overnighter.

Had a few foxes around my bivvy whilst I've been out and about never had a problem, although they do seem to be less afraid of us than they were in years gone by

[treefrog]

You can follow all the right do's and don'ts when you're out in the bush, but predicting wild animals is never an exact science. I've had dozens of bear encounters,
but only one worrying one...he decided to block the only entrance to the tent with Sharon inside and me outside. Some fancy canoe paddle brandishing solved it pretty quick
and sent him on his way. (We went out the next week and bought a tent with two doors!). Bears are thick on the ground here and we're pretty used to seeing lots of sign
and being out camping with them around....The one critter, however, that does give me the creeps is the cougar; you can potentially only know one is around when he
lands on your back! I read very recently that a population of eastern cougars was confirmed by biologists to be living in this part of Ontario.
Note to self: add shotgun & slugs to canoe trip kit list...:zombie-fighting:

Happy Camping,

Jack

[Martin]

Just copied this from the Ten Tors website. It confirms what has been said.

"Mon, 27 Feb 2012 at 08:21:19:
The Gutter Tor Fox(es)

Hi,

I manage the Dartmouth Ten Tors Teams and this weekend we camped near the Scout Hut below Gutter Tor (SX 578669). During the evening we were welcomed by a Fox that didn’t seem to be fazed by us being there.

During the night the said Fox or Foxes embarked on a mass destruction of our tent guy ropes, it chewed through virtually every guy rope on 10 tents. It also bit holes into 2 tents to try and get to the food we had inside. The Fox was quite successful in biting through and getting to food , it even managed to bite in through the side pocket of one of the young persons rucksacks. At first we thought the wind had picked up and despite getting up during the night to chase it off and collect our belongings it still returned.

It would be a good idea to warn other groups about this as we believe that other groups may have had the same experience due to evidence of guy ropes around the site when we arrived.

I wondered if you could put this warning on the website so others can change the campsite should they be intending to use it, I am certainly going to change our next camp from there.

The night proved to be a great talking point for much of yesterday, thankfully the YP weren’t to bothered by it and we all had enough food to spread around for those that had lost theirs.

Kind Regards

Theresa Walker"


Martin

[Roadkillphil]

Right, that's it! I'm never going camping again in case I get eaton by foxes!! :p

Seriously though, in 2003 Em and and I were camping in the forest of Dean and Fern (our terrier) woke us up growling. After ten minutes of this I had to find out what was spooking her. When I opened up the tent and looked in the porch I found Ferns food bowl with most of the food gone and a huge hedgehog sat in the bowl chowing down on what was left!!

It took me years to brave the dangerous wilds of the great outdoors after being violated like that! I still have nightmares about that hedgehog..... :P

Really seriously this time, I can imagine it isn't easy pickings for foxes on Dartmoor and as we encroach further into their habitats without threatening them, hunger and lack of fear lead to this. At the end of the day, theym kind of wild dogs, and as our resident dog expert would tell you, dogs are opportunists. Like urban foxes, They're taking advantage of the easy pickings.
It is a pain having equipment damaged, but I would not feel threatened in anyway at all.... Unless it was hedgehogs we'm talkin about ;)

[Bushwhacker]

Just copied this from the Ten Tors website. It confirms what has been said.

Yep, nobody got injured or eaten by one.

[Martin]

Yep, nobody got injured or eaten by one.

It's good to remain factual isn't it?

Martin

[comanighttrain]

well we gotto stop providing food for them... they had to shoot a tame deer in the highlands one time after it got excited and injured a tourist... very sad, it was a local attraction until then...

1000th post...wow

[Roadkillphil]

Well, I must apologies for mocking this issue as last night a fox (probably) tried haiving off with my rucksack!!! At 02:30GMT this morning I awoke in my hammock to hear my rucksac containing my food being dragged off. Clad only in boxers and boots I gave chase and saw a pair of eyes staring back at me in the light of my head torch before disappearing into the night. I retrieved my sack (10m away!) and hung it up out of reach. I then jumped back in the hammock and stayed on watch for about half hour before dropping off again. In the morning I inspected my pack and found a bite mark in the raincover... Teeth Holes right through!! Little monkey!!
I was in no way frightened, but was a little shocked and also disorientated at the time...
I'll be keeping everything off the floor from now on.

I'm gonna post a new thread later about this trip with a photo of the damage.

Cheers

Phil

[FishyFolk]

I have enough to worry about bears, lynxes, wolves, wolverines, and moose, if I am not to worry about the fox as well...

[Hushwing]

I studied ecology (hooo harkkkk at him - 'e's got an ology) and in every case the human interference into natural systems has caused problems with wildlife 'savaging' humans. Even the vampire bats of S America have started to (rarely) 'feed' off humans because of encroachment into tropical rain forest by human populations thereby depriving the bats of some of their natural feeding sources. I agree with the comment that most city foxes look particular dishevelled. I also thank Roadkillphil, Martin, Scouser and Raven bringing it back to reality. Foxes are like most predators - opportunistic - if you provide an easier, less energy burning mode of feeding they will take it. We have - we go to supermarkets (alright probably most in this forum do it grudgingly but we still do...)

Studies have shown that even lamb kills by foxes are by a large majority (I think it was 97-98%) due to weak or sickly lambs who would have been likely to die anyway (because it is easier to hunt the weak or sickly). I also acknowledge that it is a huge cost to someone trying to make a living and that this no consolation. But that is the balance of countryside management for human needs and to try and keep natural systems still working.

There will even be the more 'humanised' animals that will try their luck. The fox killing for fun is a human response to explain something we don't at first understand. When I was young we were often brought waif and stray wildlife, amongst which were fox cubs found 'abandoned' (this, by the way, included a couple of gamekeeprs who had to kill the vixen and then didn't have the heart to kill the cubs when they found them!). There were days that we had reached the peak of food needed by the foxes and so they stored the spare food by digging it dog fashion into the ground of their compound, one by one. If the fox chicken mass-murderer was left to its devices the chickens would be eventually be taken away one by one and used when needed. "What - they store food?" Who would think any animal at the top of a food chain would do that :-) Again I appreciate that is a small consolation when you have invested money into stock animals. I'm just saying that it is natural or semi-natural (in that we have intervened with more accessible food).

If you provide food that is easier to get - whether it is confined prey animals, food in bins or food in easily split tents - then the fox is smart enough to take the chance (foxes are very 'bright'' - in most cases probably more than the average household dog. Just because a large fox has been found doesn't mean that I (as a short arse) have the right to start panicking because the average height of humans has escalated in the last two decades -my god you giants will be eating my chickens next and i'll have to apply for a licence to shoot you (it's okay I don't really have a Napoleonic complex - and in fact in his era Napoleon was above average height).

So please let's keep a bit of reality about it. But I also accept that those who invest money in something might want to protect their investment.

Soap box (nicely carved out of prime fatwood!) over

[Tony1948]

All you town'es out there take care,there are thing's in the dark that will eat you'r stash or YOU, atb when wild camping and rebember................DONT GET EATEN BY THE BEARS or HOGGYPIGS HAHA.

[Roadkillphil]

well we gotto stop providing food for them...

On this point it seems with the animal kingdom you cannot undo the damage. Even if we stop feeding them, they're still gonna try. An example is all the futile signs in all the coastal towns of Cornwall asking "please do not feed the gulls" Unfortunately the gulls are now programmed to scavenge pasties and ice creams from the unwary emmett. Even if we never intentionally fed them again, they'd still nick yer pasty.
From foxes to rats to gulls and cockroaches, they've evolved new survival strategies by living in close contact with modern human activities. Its gonna take decades of sustained human behaviour changes to make a difference to these strategies. I personally have no faith in the idea that 7bn humans will change their ways.
It seems that our activities on the planet (major ecological disruption) turn some animals into pests (in our eyes) and when that happens we turn to the gun. This has been happening ever since we migrated out of Africa thousands of years ago, everywhere we went, the local megafauna was extinct within a few hundred years... Big cats, big lizards in fact any large predators. It's us or them. Not sure if you could exterminate the fox population totally tho....

As for my fox encounter, I'm just gutted I didn't see it.

[KaiTheIronHound]

@Phil, seems as if foxes are cheeky bastards everywhere you go eh mate? I've had foxes wandering around my camps in Aus, even had one of the cheeky little buggers make off with a rabbit i'd just chucked an arrow through! Looked at me as if to say "That was great teamwork, thanks!" and headed for the hills!