Synthetic Vs Down

[comanighttrain]

My understanding of the differences is very basic...

Synthetic
Heavier
Works when wet
Washable
Cheaper

Down
Lighter
Ruined when wet
More Expensive

Anyone want to throw their hat in? share some advice or argue any points?

:camping:

[Silverback]

My understanding of the differences is very basic...

Synthetic
Heavier
Works when wet
Washable
Cheaper

Down
Lighter
Ruined when wet
More Expensive

Anyone want to throw their hat in? share some advice or argue any points?

:camping:

Nail + hammer = head. More or less bang on.

Id add smaller pack size a plus point for down although down it shouldnt be left compressed as a negative.

[Martin]

I would add that down is washable, Nikwax Down Wash works fine.

I couldn't believe quite how nice a down bag was until I bought my Rab Neutrino 400. It is like being cuddled by a host of angels wearing gossamer gloves. Well, ok that's perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but it's very comfortable, warm and delightfully cosy. Not had to endure a wet night in it yet mind so I may change my mind after that.

Martin

[GwersyllaCnau]

Personally I look at the warmth to £ ratio rather than the warmth to lb

Snugpak elite 3 (synthetic) £84.95
Weight: 1440 grams
Packsize: 19cm x 20cm (fully compressed)
Temp: Comfort -5c, Low -10c According to thebushcraftstore.co.uk

SkyeHigh 600 from ALPKIT (Down) £125
Bag Weight: 1215 grams
Compressed Size: 23 x 25cm
AK Sleep Limit**: -5C

**The Alpkit sleep limit is a guideline figure. It is the minimum temperature at which we think a fit and healthy user can have an adequate night's sleep. This is based on practical experience and BS4745 testing by the boffins at Leeds University. (taken from Alpkit.com)

These may not be the best bags but they are ones that I have looked at. Both have a comfort rating of -5 (I assume) down is only 200g lighter, packs down LARGER???? Big difference in price.

I couldn't justify £40 just to save 200g

But thats my opinion based on my limited research.

[Silverback]

I like your thinking are you sure you're not from Yorkshire ? I couldnt justify £40 quid either by the way.

My snugpak softie hawk packs down larger than my down Aztec summit 1... Both have similar temp ratings the snugpak is actually smaller in size when 'deployed' than the aztec.

The season and comfort ratings are a bit of a misnomer IMHO. I sleep warm due to the fact that I'm 6' 2" and 17 stone - I lose heat slower than a 8 stone racing snake apparently its to do with physics ;)

[GwersyllaCnau]

I like your thinking are you sure you're not from Yorkshire ? I couldnt justify £40 quid either by the way.

My snugpak softie hawk packs down larger than my down Aztec summit 1... Both have similar temp ratings the snugpak is actually smaller in size when 'deployed' than the aztec.

The season and comfort ratings are a bit of a misnomer IMHO. I sleep warm due to the fact that I'm 6' 2" and 17 stone - I lose heat slower than a 8 stone racing snake apparently its to do with physics ;)

Last night I took my son for an overnighter. We've got vango bags that supposedly have a comfort rating of +5 when new, these are getting old and are stored compressed so are now quite flat. I put my son in his hammock fully dressed with a hat on with one sleeping bag in a bivvy bag, another sleeping bag over this. I struggled into my hammock the same way and by the time I had almost passed out through the heat, removed the bivvy and one bag and was just lying on the mat with one bag over me, he was 'ok' I was still a bit warm apart from when parts of me came off the mat (cold butt). Minimum temp during the night was 4 degrees C.

OMG what a long winded way to say "yes I agree comfort ratings are a bit of a misnomer, but they help as a guide" :)

[comanighttrain]

Heat guides also suffer from uhh...humidity.... you can still be cold on a relativly warm day up here because your wet...

[Silverback]

Heat guides also suffer from uhh...humidity.... you can still be cold on a relativly warm day up here because your wet...


True ! Should always delayer or even change clothes to sleep in, according to them that knows

[comanighttrain]

I pretty much agree with that - one thing i wanna try is delayer and synthetic bag over most of the gear....see what these synthetics are really up to

[Phineas]

Here's a big difference: Life expectancy

I read somewhere recently that synthetic bags last 3-5 years, down 10-15 years.

If so then in terms of £ per year of use, down is a clear winner.

An extra £40 for a down Alpkit sounds like an investment to me.

[Martin]

Hey Phineas, a very warm welcome to the NaturalBushcraft forum.

Your point is very well made. At the end of the day, if cost becomes the most important reason for buying or not buying a piece of kit surely we'd all be carrying blankets and extra clothes to sleep in?

I have always tried to buy the best quality I can afford as it will pay me back in the long run. Of course, that is the best I can afford and everyone's budget is different. I would have loved to have spent more on my sleeping bag but I couldn't afford it. I bought the Snugpak Elite 4 a couple of years ago and it just doesn't fit my needs any longer. If I'd spent the extra on a down bag back then, I would have saved about £70.

Martin

[Silverback]

Here's a big difference: Life expectancy
I read somewhere recently that synthetic bags last 3-5 years, down 10-15 years.
If so then in terms of £ per year of use, down is a clear winner.

I'd agree with that, I have a well loved '58 pattern Artic bag that i got for (ahem) free ;) which is 20 + years old still has its loft, still has its down - ok it has one or two patches but its still there today.

[jus_young]

... It is like being cuddled by a host of angels wearing gossamer gloves. Well, ok that's perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but it's very comfortable, warm and delightfully cosy. Not had to endure a wet night in it yet mind so I may change my mind after that.

Martin

I would agree with you actually Martin! I have a Rab Ascent 500 down bag after spending years using synthetic bags and what a contrast. The Rab is a lovely bag and well worth the investment. The pack size is a bit misleading though as mine compresses much smaller than quoted and the compression bag doesn't look as big as the quoted size before you even start squishing it.

[GwersyllaCnau]

Here's a big difference: Life expectancy

I read somewhere recently that synthetic bags last 3-5 years, down 10-15 years.

If so then in terms of £ per year of use, down is a clear winner.

An extra £40 for a down Alpkit sounds like an investment to me.

I didn't know that down lasts longer. My synthetic bags are 6 years old and used very often (kids sleep overs) and are on their way out.

[Al21]

I have to say that my experience is the complete opposite and my purchase of a down bag left me wondering what all the fuss was about.

I used to use cheapo bags for all my camping, whether that was fishing, hiking, canoeing, festivals or whatever. I kept reading the sort of 'down is best' comments in books and magazine articles and thought I'd get one when I could. Well, with a pocketful of redundancy money I thought I'd finally get one of these wonder bags and after talking to a mates father who made fairly regular trips to climb in the Himalayas I settled on a Mountain Equipment bag.

I picked it up on my way to an Easter weekend camp in Wales, so fresh from the shop and full of enthusiasm at my purchase I settle down to sleep and proceeded to freeze my nads off! This can't be happening I thought. These bags are so much warmer and last five times as lomg as synthetic bags, but perhaps it had been stored too long in it's bag. Next day, I left the bag in the tent in the hope that it might fully loft up, but despite the temperature being warmer I still struggled to sleep because I'd wake up cold with just two layers of nylon covering me.

When I got home I contacted the supplier who said that the loft must have been impaired in some way and that I should wash it in the Nikwax down wash product, which I did. It was still absolutely rubbish and I ended up returning it and buying a Vango synthetic bag which I still use today. Five years ago I started to use a silk liner in winter, but this tale is from 1990. At the time I looked at Rab down bags, but they started at £800 and went up to £1200 for the top of the range goose down bag. The ME bag cost roughly £200 quid and has been the worst camping purchase I've ever made.

I look at the way folks on forums enthuse about down bags and wonder if I was just unlucky, but against that, when I went back to fella whose advice on which manufacturer to buy from and told the tale, his response was, you didn't buy a down bag, they often do that! I've spoken with numerous people over the years while on canoeing trips etc and have heard similar tales many times. My synthetic bag has suffered what most would call grievous abuse and has served more than adequately and all for £80. I'd love to reduce pack size and weight, but it's very much a case of once bitten twice shy.

Al

[Woodwose]

Here's a big difference: Life expectancy

I read somewhere recently that synthetic bags last 3-5 years, down 10-15 years.

If so then in terms of £ per year of use, down is a clear winner.

An extra £40 for a down Alpkit sounds like an investment to me.

I'm not sure what you mean about synthetic bags lasting 3 - 5 years. Can you explain more please. Mine are at least 10 years old, a Snugpack 4 season and a Blacks own brand. I'm confused.:confused2:
Aren't some people allergic to Down so they use synthetic instead.?

[happybonzo]

You have to be careful as the Manufacturers use naughty terms like "Feather and Down". This is not the same as "Down and Feather". These two terms refer to the percentage of Down to Feather in a garment, sleeping bag or duvet

My understanding is that Down can be washed but Feathers are extremely difficult if not nigh-on impossible to wash satifactorily

I still have a Pattern 58 that got dragged around Norway and it's still a good 'un; for Summer use I have a ME Dreamcatcher and that has been equally good

[Phineas]

I'm not sure what you mean about synthetic bags lasting 3 - 5 years. Can you explain more please. Mine are at least 10 years old, a Snugpack 4 season and a Blacks own brand. I'm confused.:confused2:
Aren't some people allergic to Down so they use synthetic instead.?

The 3-5 and 10-15 year estimates were something I read somewhere recently. I've been researching down bags. I have a cheap synthetic which has gone flat as a pancake loftwise. I have decided to try down.

And yes some people are allergic to down. Hopefully not me or I'm about to waste a lot of money :)

[jus_young]

The 3-5 and 10-15 year estimates were something I read somewhere recently. I've been researching down bags. I have a cheap synthetic which has gone flat as a pancake loftwise. I have decided to try down.

And yes some people are allergic to down. Hopefully not me or I'm about to waste a lot of money :)

You could always go and sniff a few ducks and see what happens :)