shelters destoryed ?

[shadowhound]

i live in Warrington UK, near St helens, Manchester. so finding an area to pratice bushcraft and build shelters is kind of a hard one or staying out all night without someone passing is hard.

so i was wondering havs anyone on here had a little site they really liked and built a nice shelter so you can go back to time and time again, only to find it destoryed ?

[Wrighty28]

i did as it goes. when i was younger my garden backed onto a river. me and a mate used to row down to the local nature reserve and build small lean - to's and a few tree houses. mostly during the summer. every day we would work on what ever project we were building and 9/10 within 4 - 5 days it was always destroyed. not by rangers or anything like that. it was completely un-patrolled reserve. so.. we would always start again :)

also last Christmas me and 2 mates built a huge 7ft snow knob. balls and everything.... we went sledding for 30 mins. come back, some little arse had kicked it over.... was literally a work of art.

[JEEP]

Our favourite spot, the open campground at Brigsted, is repeatedly vandalised during the summer - mostly by large groups of young people, using the ground for outdoor parties, littering all over, burning all the firewood (aswell as their trash), playing loud music, spraying grafitti and vandalising the trees, shelter and benches.
Last year they managed to burn 2-3 M2 of firewood in one frickin' night, as well as throwing all their empty beer cans and bottles in the fire, making the fire so big it cracked the rocks of the fire ring and scorched the benches around it! For the rest of the season there was minimal firewood to be found, the remaining was - as usual - looted by the locals, at the end of the season.

[happybonzo]

Shelter building: We've all done it as kids and some of us continue to do it.
Wearing my woodland owners hat I get worried sick when I find shelters and evidence of a fire. These "shelters" usually seem to appear amongest the Western Red Cedar which is a valuable tree for me.
I'd let it carry on if people were more careful but they're not. Now I just drive the Forwarder straight through them
Geochachers are an even bigger pain in the ^%$! I've had product heaps thrown around with some throbber trying to find the little box.
Grrr, blood pressure rising - now breathe sloowwlly etc etc

[JEEP]

I used to do a little geocaching. But, having seen the negative impact of cachers creating their own ad-hoc paths (due to following the arrow on the GPS in a straight line, instead of following existing paths), climbing trees with no regard for damaging bark and branches, vandalizing historical buildings, trees, etc. to make spots to hide their caches, I stopped.
There are surely many cachers out there that take good care of nature and adhere to rules and general outdoor ethics, most are probably like that, but there are unfortunally also quite many who doesn't.
I am an LNT person - and caching, as it has developed over time, is not compatible with the principles of LNT.

[JonnyP]

I don't want to sound like a snob or something, but I feel any shelters or camps on land that is not yours (esp if you are stealth camping), should be taken down when you leave the woods anyway. Leave only footprints and all that..
Scatter leaves over the area you have trodden down, and where the fire was, and any nice lengths of wood that are useful can be hidden away off the ground, up in trees, so they can be used again and the camp area will not *invite* others to stay there.

[Martin]

I don't want to sound like a snob or something, but I feel any shelters or camps on land that is not yours (esp if you are stealth camping), should be taken down when you leave the woods anyway. Leave only footprints and all that..
Scatter leaves over the area you have trodden down, and where the fire was, and any nice lengths of wood that are useful can be hidden away off the ground, up in trees, so they can be used again and the camp area will not *invite* others to stay there.

You're not being a snob John, it's exactly what the principal of 'Leave No Trace' is all about, as you well know. I personally hate to see the remains of shelters scattered around the woods. For me, it's no different to leaving a fire scar or a pile of rubbish.

Like you said, bushcrafters should clear up after themselves. No one should ever know we've been there!!

Martin

[Roadkillphil]

If I had my own woodland, I'd probably build a semi permanent shelter, but I don't :( So on the odd occasion I've built a shelter, it's been on someone else's land with or without permission... And its been subsequently dismantled. The LNT factor for me is about the whole stealth thing, I like not being a part of everyday civilisation when I'm stealthing it, I like not being seen or heard or leaving any trace whatsoever that I was there.

I wonder if your shelters are being "dismantled" for you by conscientious bushcrafters?

Also, I know that not everyone has a choice like this but I tend to go that little bit further off the beaten track when stealthing it, where idiots tend not to go. You'll be surprised that a small copse in the right place may not have been visited for months (Adams overgrown roundabouts!!!)

:D

Cheers

Phil

[Silverback]

Like you said, bushcrafters should clear up after themselves. No one should ever know we've been there!!



Hear Hear Martin. All too often round our way people are leaving the detritus of their visits, destroying the beauty of the National Park, some even leave pitched tents behind full of beer cans and the like. These places though tend to be readily accessible as these people dont want to carry 48 cans of lager 500 feet let alone 5 miles.

I have had access to my local woodland taken away for camping now as over the summer there were 2 big fires caused by people camping without permission - the landowners policy is now one of no one is allowed to camp no matter how responsible - an understandible sentiment as the woodland is his livelihood.

A few idiots spoiling it for the rest of us eh ?

[Silverback]

You'll be surprised that a small copse in the right place may not have been visited for months (Adams overgrown roundabouts!!!)


Mmmm this has got me thinking, I know a stonking roundabout, only problem is i think its illegal to cross the motorway to get to it ;)

[Martin]

There was a thread on BCUK a year or two ago about pitching camp in the most public places possible. If I remember, you had to pitch a tarp or some sort of shelter, have a brew, take a photo and get out without being arrested.

There were some pretty good efforts but it died a death for some reason. Now, the motorway roundabout does seem like a good spot although, as you say, access could be somewhat hairy. :D

Martin

[treefrog]

There's a lot of talk about building shelters, but what about using a small tent? It goes up (and down) in minutes and leaves no trace,
as Martin was talking about. I don't pretend to know anything about the camping scene in Europe, but here the tent is #1.
Thankfully we haven't got the vandalism problems or the need for 'stealth' camping; you can basically be all alone if you want to be.
Good luck with all your adventures....

Jack

[Silverback]

This tent is in a place called 'The Blacks' off the A628 Woodhead Pass. It had a note attached to it from the NP rangers. Obviously people can buy tents so cheaply now that they can afford to leave them behind.

3407

3406

In the summer months it is descended upon by people carrying slabs of beer and portable BBQ's. Some bag up their rubbish and leave it in situ in black bags, most leave it where it is..........

[Saxon]

Shadowhound have you got transport? You could try what I used to do, although perhaps employment laws,Health and safety etc: might prevent it now. I used to go to local farms and offer to help out, without wages at their busy times, Haymaking, shifting bales etc: in exchange for rabbit/pidgeon shooting permission. I always had 2 or 3 places where I could shoot. Once they get used to you and know you're a worker and can trust you, life gets easier.
It might work for bushcrafting permission too...but..never leave any sign that you've been there. Once the farmer sees that you're not some lazy doughnut littering his land/woods you should be welcome..:)

[shadowhound]

that is annoying that tents can be bought so cheap that they leave the tents behind, im all for camping with a tent but what i enjoy the most is building a shelter i can sleep in and then be proud of my acomplishment, also helps the skills :)

but a lot of you are right about when people leave left over fires, rubbish everywhere it just ruians it totally.

the small perm hut i built was destoryed by kids, but building that taught me a lot :)

finding somewhere no one goes is becomming harder each year due to people building roads i mean if you live in scotland or wales then land there is plentyful even natural shelters in wales are good :)

[Martin]

There's a lot of talk about building shelters, but what about using a small tent? It goes up (and down) in minutes and leaves no trace,
as Martin was talking about. I don't pretend to know anything about the camping scene in Europe, but here the tent is #1.
Thankfully we haven't got the vandalism problems or the need for 'stealth' camping; you can basically be all alone if you want to be.
Good luck with all your adventures....

Jack

Jack, the tent is by far the No1 choice for camping in Europe too but what we're talking about here is the 'bushcraft' thing of making do with what you can find about you. Building a shelter is, I guess, one of the basic bushcraft skill, alongside fire lighting, water collection and foraging for food. The difference between bushcraft and survival is that in bushcraft you do this out of choice and in survival you do it to save your life. In the former, you should leave no trace so that you can do it again, in the latter I guess it matters not what trace you leave?

Martin

[wizardbiz]

I don't want to sound like a snob or something, but I feel any shelters or camps on land that is not yours (esp if you are stealth camping), should be taken down when you leave the woods anyway. Leave only footprints and all that..
Scatter leaves over the area you have trodden down, and where the fire was, and any nice lengths of wood that are useful can be hidden away off the ground, up in trees, so they can be used again and the camp area will not *invite* others to stay there.
agree 100% jonnyp, leave no trace

[Al21]

I can't help but feel that some of the comments in this thread come across as a little harsh to the OP even if they are not intended that way.

The trouble with permanent shelters to me, is that, without permission you are seen by landowners as part of the problem. even with permission, your shelter will be seen by others as validation for them to do the same and down the slippery slope to the place becoming a party venue we go.

Leave no trace is definitely the way to go, where ever you are, and whatever you are doing.

Al