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V13TC0NG
27-11-2010, 09:06 AM
Hey I know this topic must come up a lot but I'm personally getting very frustrated with all the info out on the net about which type of steel is better for holding its edge and sharpening.
The majority of info I've read on the net or hear on youtube states that carbon steel is easier to sharpen because stainless has all that stuff in the metal that protects it... but the downfall is that carbon can rust and corrode easier than stainless. (which makes sense)
BUT... there's other info that says the complete opposite. To help me verify this info once and for all, I called two "House of Knives" stores in my city.... and one guy said he was a blacksmith and that high carbon metals are much more stronger than stainless steel... therefore carbon blades will hold their edge longer.. but are harder to sharpen because of how strong the steel is. (Which also makes sense) But stainless steel is easier to sharpen... however loses its edge much quicker therefore resulting in having to sharpen more often.

I don't know if it makes a difference whether the forums I've read has anything to do with kitchen knives apposed to survival/hunting knives or not.. or if there's a big difference in "carbon" or "high carbon" making one of them harder to sharpen than stainless.. :confused2:

I'm very sorry for this long post... but you gotta understand my frustration considering I've been getting a lot of false info from "professionals"

Not sure if there's a loophole that I might not have understood

V13TC0NG
27-11-2010, 12:39 PM
Nobody can help me here? Seriously?

greenpete
27-11-2010, 04:32 PM
I think this thread helps, maybe check it out, particularly this post http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?190-Stainless-or-Carbon-Mora&p=1342&viewfull=1#post1342 ...

V13TC0NG
27-11-2010, 04:54 PM
Yeah I did read all those posts earlier. I'm just frustrated that I getting so much mixed info out there that it's really making it difficult for me in terms of which type of blade I want to purchase. I'm definitely not as outgoing as you guys in bush crafts.. but I would like to eventually when I know what I'm doing.
To tell you the truth.. I think I'm more concerned that I won't be able to sharpen my knife properly. I watched videos on how to do it... but how much more difficult is it going to be if I choose a blade that's "harder to sharpen" .... I really don't know what that means in terms of time

Bambii
27-11-2010, 05:11 PM
Yeah, i never understood that. If stainless steel is softer how is it harder to sharpen.

greenpete
27-11-2010, 05:12 PM
The best way is to try things, to explore.
Others advice and experience 'will' differ.
Dip your toe in the water and just try a few knives, maybe friends, maybe cheaper knives like the moras.
Just because I knife may be considered hard to sharpen really doesn't mean it is hard to sharpen, it's just a knife!

Bush_Men
27-11-2010, 05:32 PM
Of course experimentation is great but you have to understand what are the components that can influence a steel and with some knowledge you start to experiment the steels that you think that will be good for your tasks. It really doesn't matter if it is carbon or stainless, what it matters is your hapiness and capability of steel and the knife for the tasks that you do...

V13TC0NG
27-11-2010, 05:55 PM
Of course experimentation is great but you have to understand what are the components that can influence a steel and with some knowledge you start to experiment the steels that you think that will be good for your tasks. It really doesn't matter if it is carbon or stainless, what it matters is your hapiness and capability of steel and the knife for the tasks that you do...


I suppose that's the only problem I really have. I don't know my steels at all. I've been doing a lot of reading on reviews... but personally... some of the blades that have great reviews just aren't my style. I don't know if that sounds stupid or not.. but I do want a knife that I think is really attractive if that makes sense to you. Basically I'll mainly use my knife for light carving.. ie, making traps.. pegs.. feather sticks. But at the same time .. want to know that "IF" it came down to a survival situation... that it would be sufficient enough to perhaps take a fair bit of abuse... but only in a survival situation. With that being said.. if I'm doing light carving here and there.. I'd hope it would maintain its edge fairly well and not be TOO difficult for me to sharpen.. I don't mind spending a few minutes sharpening.. but I don't want to sit there for an hour on a stone with minimal results. You know what I mean?

This is a knife I'm really attracted to at the moment and I can get it brand new right now for under a $100 which seems like a good deal considering the retailed price.. but I don't understand the specs too clearly in terms of what the grade of steel. Think you can help me on this one?

http://www.boker.de/us/fixed-blade-knife/boker/hunting-outdoor-knife/120620.html

I was also thinking about the SEAL Pup Elite - Straight Edge Black .. AUS 8 steel ..... but I've been hearing people talking down on it now that it's made in Taiwan.. so I don't know if the knife isn't up to its standards anymore.. or maybe people are just hating. I don't know.

greenpete
27-11-2010, 07:14 PM
Beautiful looking knife and as it says Solingen on it, I would imagine it would be excellent.
I personally wouldn't use such a knife for carving as the single bevel is (in my opinion) the best tool for the job, hence making them and teaching how to make them (http://www.greenpete.co.uk/knife-making/).
I also prefer carbon tool steel for the blade.

V13TC0NG
27-11-2010, 07:33 PM
Beautiful looking knife and as it says Solingen on it, I would imagine it would be excellent.
I personally wouldn't use such a knife for carving as the single bevel is (in my opinion) the best tool for the job, hence making them and teaching how to make them (http://www.greenpete.co.uk/knife-making/).
I also prefer carbon tool steel for the blade.


Hmm okay I'm starting to see a pattern in my searches and I think I'm pretty convinced now that carbon steel is the route that's probably best for me.. I'll eventually try them all.. but seems carbon has a more positive feedback in terms of what I want so long as I maintain it from rusting and what not.
With that said... what do you suggest the type of steel I should stick with? I ask that because I keep hearing that Mora knives are great but I see that a lot are made with stainless steel and I really don't understand the steel terms all that well (ie HRC 57).... I still don't even know what a bevel is lol. Also is there a big difference in carbon and high carbon? Is there one I should lead towards more?

I'm very sorry for asking too many questions.. but since I'm getting feedback I figured I'd get it all off my chest while I'm talking to an expert.

On a different note.. I really hate the look of the mora handles. The knives I posted up is more my style... so if you have any suggestions in what might be good for me... I'm always up for suggestions =)

greenpete
27-11-2010, 07:42 PM
As I say in my tutorial, use an old metal work file if you're going to make your own. You can buy micarta for the handle on the net... do a search.
Or you can use O1 ground flat stock, again a search will bring up suppliers, or follow the link on my tutorial.
If you don't want to make the knife your self, but like the idea of such a knife, there are quite a few out there making them now, so again, search the net and you should come up with a maker.
The knife forums are great help too. A good one to try is http://www.britishblades.com

Matt
27-11-2010, 07:45 PM
May I sugest that you stop analysing it and go and buy one, maybe one of each, a Mora in stainless and a Mora in carbon steel. Then you will know what you're dealing with without breaking the bank.

Regards, Matt.

greenpete
27-11-2010, 07:50 PM
May I sugest that you stop analysing it and go and buy one
I agree! :)

Martin
27-11-2010, 07:53 PM
May I sugest that you stop analysing it and go and buy one, maybe one of each, a Mora in stainless and a Mora in carbon steel. Then you will know what you're dealing with without breaking the bank.

Regards, Matt.

Matt is a man of few words but, in my experience, when he speaks it's worth listening to. Once again, he has hit the nail squarely on the head.

Martin

luresalive
27-11-2010, 08:57 PM
As above posts say, go ahead, you can but 2 mora's, one carbon, one stainless for 20, try them both out and see what way they behave...remember however every review you read about a knife is that persons own view, just because they like it doesn't mean you will, I went down the custom route ( my total knife collection was worth 5000 at one point, they are now all sold) thinking expensive hand made was better for me, guess what, it turned out it wasn't..I now use Mora 510's for nearly all my bushcraft ( and also it's stainless brother when I'm around salt water) but that's because I like it..try out different knives and steels and trust nobody else's opinion but your own!!

CanadianMike
27-11-2010, 11:13 PM
Regarding carbon blades, they will discolour with use and if you leave then wet for a short period of time, but they won't rust instantly if exposed to wet or moist air. Over time if left unattended, yes, they will rust. Is simple enough to prevent rust of discolouration from occuring on carbon blades, a simple wipe of oil once in a while works great, or you can do other things like soak in hot vinegar, which lightly etches the steel, creating thin gray layer of oxide, which should deter rust............. or just rub a way crayon all over the blade, then use friction from your hand and a cloth (yes, sounds like something else) to melt and spread the wax layer thin.

BTW, "stainless" actually is part of a sentence, meaning "the metal stains less than carbon", it doesn't say it's rust proof. Stainless steel used for knife blades is still usually high carbon steel, but has extra elements added to it like chromium, vanadium, etc. that reduces the iron particles interaction with oxygen to cause discolouration or rust.

My choice, now that I'm making knives, is high carbon O1 steel, but have owned stainless knives for years and did in fact find them difficult to sharpen, but I think that might have been partly bevel angle or other.

Fletching
23-12-2010, 11:05 PM
Hi V13TC0NG,

You're in luck. I recently bought the Bōker European Game Hunter and it's a fabulous knife. It's C75 carbon steel and I've used it on rabbits AND feathering wood, and I've only sharpened it once in two months. It's not a Scandi grind but if you DO get yourself a Bōker hunter (or lock), get yourself a Falkniven DC4 (or similar) diamond and ceramic sharpening set (one each side and really compact for field use). The grind angle is about 20 degrees. Don't get put off with sharpening details, it will come to you with experience. What I will recommend to you is to get yourself a simple and cheap (but very reliable!) knife such as one of the Moras for about twelve - twenty quid. They're pretty indestructable and you can mess this up learning how to sharpen without ruining an expensive knife. BTW, I've also got a SOG Seal Pup which sits nicely in my 'sharps' drawer, but for the 'survival' situation you mention, a good short knife will be just as good when you know how to use and sharpen it. Hope this helps.

Steve

Fletching
23-12-2010, 11:14 PM
...nearly forgot, when not in use, coat your blade in a good oil (camellia oil's the best IMHO) and don't store your knife in a leather sheath indoors as varying temperatures and moisture could cause mould in the leather to affect the knife over long storage. When it comes to rust, in some cases, this can actually be desirable in the way of 'patina', as Ashley and friends have demonstrated here: http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/kit/reviews/forcing-a-patina-on-bushcraft-knives.html

Steve

Aaron Rushton
27-12-2010, 08:26 PM
i agree with all thats been said above. if you don't like the look of the old mora handles (and i dont blame you, there ghastly) check out the 2010 range. they have rubber coated handles and are really ergonomic. would highly recommend them. get a stainless and carbon of those then decide which steel you like before doshing out on a more expensive knife. personally i like carbon, easier to get a good edge off it than stainless by far.

Mouldsy
29-12-2010, 08:21 PM
As above posts say, go ahead, you can but 2 mora's, one carbon, one stainless for 20, try them both out and see what way they behave...remember however every review you read about a knife is that persons own view, just because they like it doesn't mean you will, I went down the custom route ( my total knife collection was worth 5000 at one point, they are now all sold) thinking expensive hand made was better for me, guess what, it turned out it wasn't..I now use Mora 510's for nearly all my bushcraft ( and also it's stainless brother when I'm around salt water) but that's because I like it..try out different knives and steels and trust nobody else's opinion but your own!!

I agree with lure's, I have had custom knifes and always come back to the Mora, but like Lure's says trust your own opinion it's you that's using the knife after all.

ghost
30-12-2010, 12:10 AM
I agree with lures as well he obviously knows what he is talking about considering the collection he has had! I us a knife by a company called hultafors, it is( from what I have seen ) very like a mora knife but less expensive. It is carbon steel but I clean it after every use and although I have some rust it has been very minor and cleans off easily.

Bambii
30-12-2010, 12:35 AM
Less expensive than a mora?! :O :O :O