Hi, I'm just up the road from you in standish, but lived in orrell for a number of years, near the water park. I still go for a walk round the area with the dogs, round the back of the hozzie, up past the old brick works and down past the underground ressie, a good couple of hours, I'll give you a shout next time I'm going if you like.............On a slightly different tack, there's a meet being organised by sapper in yorkshire, in Jan, you might be interested, check it out, up to now there's 11 folk going, cheers Ian.