Calling all BUshcrafters!! I need help!!

[Mouse040]

Sorry if I'm being simplistic , my understanding of this is that your police force has identified that the bushcraft community could supply the foot power and time in the said problem environment that they can not ? This said I agree as a bushcrafter I want to give back and personally could not ignore any crime I would witness but do understand the risk in certain situations and agree guidelines should be In place and followed

I work with children with individual requirements within d of e and ten tours and understand the importance of giving these 'problem kids ' an education within our countryside but I also see the rewards that are available to anyone willing to take the time and effort into these kids don't get e wrong it's hard and can be very difficult and I don't think that the police have the resources to make this happen
I see them taking kids from mainstream school who are the good kids the ones who will represent the school in the manner which is wanted . I am sorry I'm being pessimistic but I have seen this happen before and they are not the kids who need this education it's the kids that no one wants to take out who need it the ones who have temper tantrums at 15 years old and people look at you as if your an alien trust me its a very difficult situation to put yourself in ,infact when I started there were four of us now I run all three classes every week and help comes and goes In relatively short intervals keeping the momentum is difficult , there are also other things to take into account about the level at which you show bushcraft skills to something I learnt when first approaching the kids I work with we had a really good day made a few shelters had a fire cooked some sausages and I went home feeling really positive about the first day the next time I meet with the same bunch of lads they are excited and begin to tell me about the fire they had in there local woods after I showed hem what to do , I was horrified it hadn't even crossed my mind and I thought I was more clued up than that just something to think about as the bits which will easily keep the interest of the target kids are the skills that in essence can lead to the original problem itself

I really Appaud your openness to help and find a solution I just think its more difficult to put In place some of your points than others and hope it is allowed the foot work needed and does not become a quick fire publicity front

And on a personal point I think the police need an education on what we as bushcrafters are all about in my area and look forward to this on a national scale

[Silverback]

As far as work load for police goes, there has been plans to transfer more and more of it, over to the private security sector. This could mean a possible combination of security and wildlife officers, or more security officers in other sectors, freeing up police officers to deal with wildlife offenses. Not sure how long it will be, before it takes effect though. They were talking about this way back when I did my SIA courses.

Yup I remember that....the private security officers on the beat actually became the PCSO's that we all know now

[Wardy]

Just came across this thread.

Thanks for the reports ade, this really is a fantastic thread!

Although I agree with the principle (after all protecting our woodlands and countryside is important) I think I'm much the same as the others for example.. If I'm in the woods practising bushcraft and someone else phones the police mistaking me for someone who has been leaving burn/fire marks all across the woodland and I'm then confronted by police whilst I have sharp objects on me how do I prove I'm one of the good guys?

As a novice bushcrafter I need lots of practise and although its said the police would show us the same respect for helping when the situation arises where bushcrafter is confronted how will it be proved we've helped?

That said I would help if these very difficult/blurry/fine lines where to be made clear. And I'm also in Somerset.

Cheers Dan.

[TreefrogGB]

My only concern is, what will this lead to?

I would hope, a reduction in crime.

When more crimes (of any nature) are reported then yes, more time, money and effort, gets put into preventing it

There is no money, thanks to a 20% cut in the policing budget. This is why the Police are looking at other ways of preventing crime.

But look to the past. What, in real terms, does this result in? More legislation, more banning, more authority.

I would argue the opposite could happen. If land owners open up their land to responsible bushcrafters. They would have a valuable (ok, free) way of the land being patrolled by individuals who will report criminality and ultimately reduce offences on their land. Don't forget that this has come about because the police want help in patrolling remote areas. What is the point of legislation and banning if there is no one to enforce it ?

This, I am concerned, will affect us greatly. Those places we now manage to utilise quietly and away from eyes could soon find them closed off entirely. Maybe even patrolled.

Just how many new contacts will you be able to set up with landowners if they know you are all working together to protect wildlife and the land ?
Landowners may start to open up land for organised bushcraft organisations, as criminals are unlikely to commit crime where they can be seen. Sapper is already building a good contact base with Northern Soul, and by attending wildlife crime meetings it would be an ideal way of find out who owns the woods where you live, and making an approach for access. I see this as a massive opportunity in opening up access to Bushcrafters.

We may indeed be doing a good thing by helping out, but we may ultimately be spiting ourselves. The response the chair of that meeting gave is most telling - we will have to accept responsibility of our (illegal?) actions. If those secluded places we now use suddenly fall under Police eyes because WE have reported an increase in crime we may find they are less secluded and we are still not protected by law.

I would expect everyone to accept responsibility for their actions, exercising your rights runs alongside accepting responsibility for your actions. The Police act 'without fear or favour' within the law and would have to look at all offences in any given scenario. The chair has to be careful in use of his words, in case some would take this as a licence to do as they want 'because its all right, I'm working with the police".
I think the important thing is that incidents are getting reported so the Police can build a full intelligence picture of the organised gangs carrying out wildlife crime. You can always use https://crimestoppers-uk.org to report crime anonymously.
Also if you are on Private land with written consent to be there, the offence of a bladed article in a public place does not apply.

I know one shouldn't use Nazi analogies, but to make my point clearer, think of how local populations were recruited in Police forces by the Nazis, to round up Jews and send them off to death camps, thinking this would make themselves safe. But in the end those same Police forces were exterminated by their former masters. An extreme analogy, I know, but I see too much of this in this proposed plan.

I'm sure they have not issued party armbands to neighbourhood watch yet . Joking aside I don't think your analogy works. there is still Policing by consent in Britain whereas 'Policing by consent' is very much what it sounds like; the public consenting, or agreeing, to be policed. 'Policing by consent' means the the respect, approval, and willing co-operation of the public towards policing. This respect and approval is something the police must earn and maintain.

One of the founding principles of the police is that Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
Therefore crime prevention is the responsibly of everyone and I'm pretty sure that the Night of the Long Knives is inconsistent with current Human Rights legislation.

Wildlife crime is big business for the criminals and no longer the romantic notion of the noble poacher 'taking one for the pot' to feed his family. The criminals are well equipped and well organised. It's not just poaching either, they are involved with theft of farm equipment, 4x4's, Ifor williams trailers, diesel fuel, plant equipment, metal (copper) theft as well as livestock & game. Badger baiting an illegal dog fighting also figure.
There are already successful projects like Neighbourhood watch, Farm watch, Horse watch etc, why not a Bushcraft watch ?

[TreefrogGB]

And on a personal point I think the police need an education on what we as bushcrafters are all about in my area and look forward to this on a national scale

'The police' aren't built in factories and stored in a box when not on duty. They will have hobbies and interests too. A good many of them are ex-forces and you may be surprised how many practise bushcrafting.

[Silverback]

'The police' aren't built in factories and stored in a box when not on duty. They will have hobbies and interests too. A good many of them are ex-forces and you may be surprised how many practise bushcrafting.

Ahem...i can think of a few

[Adam Savage]

'The police' aren't built in factories and stored in a box when not on duty. They will have hobbies and interests too. A good many of them are ex-forces and you may be surprised how many practise bushcrafting.

Must admit, a few of the lads at my regular meets are, or were police officers.
Should any "guidelines" be set in place in the future, most officers would be bought up to spec (if they didn't already know) on what "bushcraft" is

[Mouse040]

Please don't take it the wrong way as I'm sure that there are infact lots of police officers that are aware of what we are about but on the down side there are some that don't and that comes from a personal experience where I was on the wrong side of this argument due to in my opinion the officers that delt with me had no knowledge of bushcrafting I became the loser this said I was only expressing my support for widening awareness of bushcraft and what we do I was definitely not in any way casting aspersions on the police force

[Humakt]

Lots of reasonable stuff

Yes, a fair response to my scepticism.
I more or less essentially agree to the points you make, yet I still remain dubious and would rather there were more thorough discussion and firm commitments, from both sides, before I can endorse this scheme.

Fortunately, I am about as far away as you can get from Lancashire, so it won't affect me yet. I'll be very interested to see how it works, for both parties, so will be keen to hear from those who get involved to see how it pans out. If successful (which I hope it is) then I'd be fully prepared to get involved. But at ths stage...I'm dubious.

[roberts]

People who badger bate and the likes are mostly local and can be quite violent to others snooping on them plus the fact that most bush rafters would probably be camping local when coming in contact with the offenders there is a good chance they will meet again at some time bleeding to further problems where the police wouldn't be so interested so just be careful not to put anyone in harms way , maybe a go between would be good