Calling all BUshcrafters!! I need help!!

[OakAshandThorn]

If only people in the US would come up with something like this...
Unfortunately, Bushcraft is not nearly so widely recognised here as it is in the UK and the rest of Europe. It is still a somewhat divided community and is generally frowned upon by some outdoor groups. I am not sure of the training Wildlife Protection Officers go through, but sharing skills with them as well as park rangers and local police would be an excellent idea . The problem I see in my area is that there are too few rangers and the police (for the most part) don't really care about poachers and careless teens. Hikers and other outdoor recreationists are therefore vigilant, but complaints usually fall on deaf ears, unless a "serious crime" is committed.

[Tigger004]

I think this is a great idea, but is fraught with problems.
One of the interesting things in Ade's request says about and seems to have been overlooked is the following Quote "Could we work with the police and rural land/woodland owners to allow us a granted access to their land to camp on in return for us being an extra pair of eyes to watch their land?
etc etc"

The allow us granted access - this would overcome most of the issues raised and certainly make camping wild more relaxed, also with permission and reason I believe that makes having all the sharps OK.

Just my take on things, I know I would rather have permission than have to stealth it, what do you guys think?

[rossbird]

I think this is a great idea, but is fraught with problems.
One of the interesting things in Ade's request says about and seems to have been overlooked is the following Quote "Could we work with the police and rural land/woodland owners to allow us a granted access to their land to camp on in return for us being an extra pair of eyes to watch their land?
etc etc"

The allow us granted access - this would overcome most of the issues raised and certainly make camping wild more relaxed, also with permission and reason I believe that makes having all the sharps OK.

Just my take on things, I know I would rather have permission than have to stealth it, what do you guys think?

I think this sounds like utopia!
However I would imagine some would get their permission and many more wouldn`t.
My own stealth camp is far enough out of the way not to get many visitors, less of a criminal nature. No reason for The Landowner to give permission.
However I still want Ade to have the meeting and report back with the "other" sides position on this tricky subject.

[Silverback]

I think this is a great idea, but is fraught with problems.
One of the interesting things in Ade's request says about and seems to have been overlooked is the following Quote "Could we work with the police and rural land/woodland owners to allow us a granted access to their land to camp on in return for us being an extra pair of eyes to watch their land?
etc etc"

The allow us granted access - this would overcome most of the issues raised and certainly make camping wild more relaxed, also with permission and reason I believe that makes having all the sharps OK.

Just my take on things, I know I would rather have permission than have to stealth it, what do you guys think?

Jus said a similar thing last night.... my reply to him... 'Wildlife Protection will be one of the last things in the budgeting due to cuts - so they could do with a bit of help - It could put people in touch with the right other people to increase permissions, raise profiles and awareness and with the right driving force do an amazing amount of good. '

Looks like we are all pushing in the same direction

[Kernowek Scouser]

Hello Ade, I fear this may be one of those situations that despite the best intentions underpinning it, will result in a very messy can of worms.

As far as numbers go, if no one has already suggested it, I'd say, get in touch with the likes of the Wilderness Gathering, the Bushcraft Show, the Cornwall RV etc. which have all taken place for a number of years, explain your situation and see if they are willing to share their data with you.

Also while participation on course may well be down, do not take this as an accurate indicator of general interest and more importantly participation in all things bushcraft.

In one of my previous lives, I used to flog such courses to individuals and corporate clients (and any other activity you care to mention) and the people who bought them have moved on to indoor skydiving, kite buggying, airsoft battles under the direction ex SF instrutors, whatever. Such people just have money to burn on whatever happens to be the flavour of the month. When Uncle Ray and Teddy Bear where more conspicuous on TV, it was Bushcraft courses. The course suppliers I worked with had an average repeat rate of less than 2%, not because that were bad at what the did, just because the clientèle were largely the type of people who do something once, then look for something else to do.

Basically, whatever definition you care to use for a 'bushcrafter' it will not apply to 98% of the people who attend bushcraft courses.

Moving on to organising outdoor enthusiasts. I think nature of the enthusiasm, getting out and getting away from it all is somewhat at odds with the concept of organisation and the sheer variety of interests: walking, wild camping, bird watching, fishing, canoeing, hunting, foraging, leather, metal and wood working etc. would make any umbrella organisation for all things bushcraft so broad church in nature, that its effectiveness could be quite diluted. And even if you had such a broad church organisation, could it ever hope to truly represent the majority of outdoor enthusiasts. Walkers for example, do already have a national organisation, the Ramblers and I have recently become a member of my local chapter (mainly to more actively participate in the R.E.A.C.T path maintenance programme). You can not go far around here without encountering a fellow walker, yet there are less than 20 member of my local chapter and half of them can't be bothered with the politics of it all (and I'm one of them). Listening the the grips of my fellow members, I do have to wonder if the supposed weight of organisation, does a great deal to further the aspirations of the organisation. Most walkers simply do their own thing, follow their own code and make their own call when to or not to contact the relevant authority, should they encounter anything amiss.

I fear the same is true of your average 'bushcrafter'.

You could certainly promote something on the various forums, provide an number to call for anyone wanting to report something (although would that number just be the new none emergency 111 number?) but while I imagine you will get a fair few people offering their thoughts, I'd be surprised if more than a tenth of those who expressed a encouraging opinion, ended up joining any fledgling outdoors organisation.

Legal Issues. As has been said, the eye witness testimony of a trespasser and any evidence gathered while trespassing, would not only be of little use to a prosecution, but would most likely result in in a slapped wrist for the well intentioned party.

Permission to camp. The one area where I do think an organisation may be helpful, is in regards to opening up official camping permission on land owned by NGO's but referring back to the Ramblers, how effective is the question. In the mean time a one to one, camper to landowner, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine approach remains the most effective IMHO.

Sorry to be so negative fella. I do not doubt your good intentions in this matter and have no reason to doubt the intentions of the other attendees of your forthcoming meeting. I just feel that the issues and individuals involved are a bit too disparate to get any real cohesion.

But I am more than happy for your good self to prove me wrong, so good luck to you fella and I for one would be interested to know how the meeting goes, when it happens.

Atb.

Colin

[Silverback]

and just to spur you on Ade.....

A Stretcher Committee was formed by the Rucksack Club after a prominent member had severe fall whilst rock climbing on Laddow Rocks in the Peak District. The member was badly injured and had to be transported from the climb on a makeshift stretcher formed from a farm gate in much discomfort, with his leg being later amputated in hospital. The Joint Stretcher Committee was formed in 1933 when the Rucksack Club Stretcher Committee merged with the similar venture of the Fell & Rock Climbing Club.

Today there are 48 teams that make up Mountain Rescue England & Wales....from little acorns....

[David_JAFO]

hello,
I supported similar to this this some years ago 1989 onwards & more recent. My skills were called upon by a Wildlife Ranger who was given my details by another Bushcraft enthusiast. This required support towards Badger Bating, setting up a covert hide, tracking advice etc.. Police were involved, then a few years later the BBC Regional News (true) covered Sphagnum Moss destruction/removal organised, programme depicted our patrol of SAS 15 Para (Scotland) TAVRF (now disbanded) through the forest area in question to deter the culprits, with Police support which it did. More recently Operation Meles (Badger Bating) & Peregrine conservation.
I say go for it Ade.
Regards
David

Quote;"The purpose of the meeting is to see how the Bushcraft Community can assist the Police in combating wildlife crime such as poaching, badger baiting, damage to property/land, theft of wild flowers/birds eggs, etc etc.."

[snowleopard]

I would definatly help.

[Silverback]

I think your age would preclude you from participating Joel, as it stands you still cannot be interviewed by the police without the presence of an 'appropriate adult'

[snowleopard]

I think your age would preclude you from participating Joel, as it stands you still cannot be interviewed by the police without the presence of an 'appropriate adult'

Sorry, it's just that whenever I see a trashed "camp" I think of the bushcrafters that get blamed for it.